2022 New York Auto Show, and Subaru Solterra driven | Autoblog Podcast #725

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder. This week was the return of the New York Auto Show, and it was a busy one. Our editors run down some of the reveals, including the updated Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisade, the long-wheelbase Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer L, refreshed Subaru Outback, the gorgeous Genesis X Speedium Coupe concept EV, the 2,200-horsepower Deus Vayanne electric hypercar, a new generation of the Kia Niro family, and the updated Nissan Leaf and Nissan Pathfinder Rock Creek. Then they discuss the news surrounding Elon Musk's offer to purchase Twitter before diving into reviews of the cars we've been driving, including the new Subaru Solterra, Subaru Forester Wilderness and our long-term BMW 330e xDrive and Hyundai Palisade.

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

Video Transcript

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GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We've got a great show for you today. It's the New York Auto Show special. We're going to bring in senior editor for all things green, John Snyder, to help me break it down. Lots of reveals. It was a legitimate Auto Show. John, how are you? Happy Thursday.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Happy Thursday to you. It's spring auto season. Auto Show season is starting up. And yeah, things are turning green. All the snow's gone. So it's time to start thinking about putting the summer tires on your vehicles, folks. Maybe give it a few more weeks if you're in the Midwest or in the Northeast. But [LAUGHS] even Portland got some snow last week.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's funny. We're at that point where you get snow and it's kind of weird. You're like, wait a minute. I had snow Sunday morning up here. And I thought, oh, I was thinking of maybe trying to go golfing today. I guess not. But then it was 70. And now it's just that nice kind of sweet spot of spring right now. It's still a little on the cold side, but that's OK. So yeah, when I think of spring Auto Shows, I really think of two. I think of Geneva, which is really like a winter Auto Show, and I think of New York.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So we have a great show for you guys this week. I think everybody is going to really enjoy getting it to just the Auto Show reveals and stuff. Yeah, we actually have driven some pretty cool things too. John was in the Solterra, the Forester Wilderness. I'll do a brief update on the Hyundai Palisade long termer which is still on winter tires. And John's in our long term three series.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Mm-hmm.

GREG MIGLIORE: So-- oh, and hey, in case you haven't heard, Elon Musk is trying to buy Twitter. That's happening as we're recording this. I've actually heard they're going to probably have a meeting literally during this recording. So if something breaks while we're recording this and we can try to maybe offer you a quick take on it, we will. Otherwise, obviously check out the site and we'll cover it from all angles there, especially as it relates to Tesla.

We do want to spend your money questions, spend my money questions, spend whoever's money. That's podcast.autoblog.com. Please get those over to us because we would like to-- it's the spring buying season, right? Good time to buy like an off roader or maybe a convertible, something like that. So--

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Off-roaders seem to be a theme. And there is a few off-roadish things shown at the new Auto Show too.

GREG MIGLIORE: So let's get right into it. I mean, there's a lot of different directions we could go with this. Why don't you kind of give me your initial impressions of these reveals?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Well, there's a lot of mid-cycle refreshes.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: The Telluride and the Palisade are both wildly popular for good reason. These are both great vehicles. And so they each got a little refresh. And the refresh sort of sets them apart a little bit more. The Telluride got an X line trim and an X-Pro trim.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And these give it a little bit more capability, a little bit of a 0.4 inch lift in the suspension, and then upgraded traction control. The X-Pro gets all terrain tires and a plug-in the outlet, perfect for getting out to a campsite or something like that. So yeah, there's a little bit more capability there. And also the X-Pro Telluride gets an extra 500 pounds of towing, 5,500 versus the standard 5,000 pounds. Then yeah, like a new infotainment, some exterior looks.

On the Palisade, the big thing you'll notice is is the grille up front, and I think it looks really good. It's very tall, sort of waterfall like grille. Some styling stuff inside and out. That doesn't really get a lot of substantial changes like the extra trim levels of the Telluride. It does get another trim level though called, I think, yeah, XRT which is sort of the analog to the Kia's X line. So cladding dark chrome, black roof rails, stuff like that. But yeah, they both get a little bit of an update as a mid-cycle refresh. And they're only a few years into their life, their entire life cycle. And the improvements they're making are incremental but not insubstantial. And yeah, they both look great.

GREG MIGLIORE: I was sort of-- I think I made a little bit of maybe on the outside here. I was getting into what some people on Twitter. I think the Palisade-- the current one looks better. I feel like this new one-- and it's-- again, it's a mid-cycle refresh. So you're just you're getting a few more features and they change the grille, which is definitely standard for mid-cycle refreshes. But I'm met our long term Palisade and I just kind of think it's a good classic look. I tend to think aesthetically, it's a little bit less is more. And this one seems just a little bit like almost too much with the waterfall grille and that chrome strip.

That being said, I was looking at our Palisade after seeing the new one and then driving the old one. And I think-- I almost feel like they do have to do something because the trend for design is getting more like these flashy grilles. So I mean, it's what it is. I probably will actually help sales because, again, this is sort of where the market's going.

I kind of like the Telluride a little bit more at this point with the off road trims. I've often thought both vehicles could use a little bit more of like ride height. It's not a problem. The Palisade and Telluride-- they're great to drive. But I've often thought, you know what, I kind of want it to be a little higher off the ground in these sort of large three row SUVs. I think if it were my money, I would probably go with that extra 10 inch elevated ride height just to get that feel behind the wheel.

But solid business-like approaches for them. Good places to do it to it like a coastal Auto Show, get the media spotlight on them. Another one sort of the business side of things-- I thought the Jeep press conference-- you've got long Ls, if you will, for the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer. So even bigger which, again, makes sense. I really am-- the Jeep SUV lineup, I think, has gotten a little-- it's very large right now. You've got every variant and then you've got the L version. And sometimes, I'm kind of a little confused.

Well, you've got the-- what's the difference between a Wagoneer L versus a Grand Cherokee L or-- and there's some different missions here. You start to get to the point where it's like-- nobody would confuse the Trailblazer-- excuse me-- the Blazer or the Equinox with the Suburban. There's some dimensional differences. But just this onslaught of Jeep SUVs in the last couple of years, I found myself being a little confused by it. But I'm sure it'll be a good moneymaker for them.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I mean, they're getting bigger. I think cars are getting bigger. And Jeep's going bigger with this. They needed some three row vehicles to keep those customers that were outgrowing the regular Grand Cherokee and whatnot. And they're going more upscale. These are basically luxury vehicles in their top trims. I mean, definitely luxury vehicles on their top trims. The interiors are really fantastic. And you might find someone going with a Grand Wagoneer instead of an Escalade. But you'd be also with Jeep you get that. There's always something extra for the people who want to take it a little further off the beaten path and the Jeep name which has a price of its own.

These Wagoneer Ls are huge though. They're incredibly big. And I still think it's a beautiful vehicle from the front. From the rear, when I've seen the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer in person on the road, some of the lines look a little-- I don't know-- arbitrary and sort of off putting. I think these Ls with a bigger rear end sort of accentuate that a little bit. But from the profile, they look they looking real nice. It's a really sharp profile and really catches your eye. And it's big and boxy and looks like something that you could see on the trail or towing a trailer or that you could see it being driven as almost a limousine with VIPs in the back. I think they're definitely reaching further and further upscale with these.

GREG MIGLIORE: And one of the things that they're doing to try to sort of mitigate just how atrocious the fuel economy was especially in like the Grand Wagoneer is rolling up the Stellantis Inline-Six. This is the Hurricane. You get a little bit better fuel economy. The power is fairly comparable here. So I think that's going to help. I think it's going to make these things a little more efficient in the near term, which is probably where they need to be. And I'm intrigued to drive a Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, with the Hurricane Inline-Six

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to driving a Jeep with an I-Six. Jeep and I-Six go together well.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, definitely.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It's a good recipe and one that I've enjoyed in the past and glad to see it again. I hope it lives up to my memories.

GREG MIGLIORE: Keeping with the mid-cycle refreshes-- the Outback got a bit of a tweak here. More cladding. Well, yeah, I guess you can say more cladding. And fog lights really pop. We tended to kind of say it almost like a wilderness vibe, but that's across the Subaru Outback lineup now.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Pretty light refresh, but definitely worth mentioning for all of our Outback buyers among our listeners, which I know we have plenty. I kind of like it. Thought the Outback was getting a little boring. I don't generally like cladding. But I feel like the way they played it, looks pretty good. So--

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. I mean, Subaru is one of those brands like Jeep-- they're recognizing that more and more people are spending more time outside and which means going places where your car might need a little more protection. And so cladding-- cladding is a very Subaru thing. We'll get more to that with the Solterra. But the Solterra has people-- Subaru loves dogs. They're always trotting out Golden Retrievers and whatnot. And dog owners are a big part of their buyers. And Subaru on the Solterra touted this unpainted plastic rear bumper that goes all the way up to the load floor for things like dogs. Your dog jumping in and out, it won't scratch up the paint. And I know that I've had cars are old GLK. There is definitely dog marks on the back there from the dog trying to get in the rear of it. So something like that-- cladding is a very Subaru thing.

I know the Outback-- this generation, they designed it to sort of look like a hiking boot. So cladding on it kind of looks like the rubber of the sole and I think it fits for Subaru and what they're doing with the Outback for sure.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Pretty evolutionary. So yes, that's the Outback. Moving along-- I think we should probably-- we've done a lot of the mid-cycle refreshes and trims. Why don't we change things up and what do you think of this Genesis X Speedium Coupe?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: [LAUGHS] It's beautiful, man.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's awesome, right?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I mean, the designs there are just fantastic. Genesis is doing wonderful things. And I'm happy to see them exploring more with their EVs, some of the things they can do without having to have as big of a grille, things that they can do with the lighting. Genesis has done these sort of two strips of lighting on a lot of its vehicles that sort of follow around the car. You can follow the two strips from the grille to the fenders back to the rear, to the tail lights. And then on this X Speedium, those strips sort of diverge right on the nose of the vehicle and make a sort of a big triangle. That sort of cuts into the air intake below and I think it looks good.

Sometimes EVs, when they have that big blank space up front where the open grille would normally be, they kind of look weird. But this, they're playing around with that space and making it stylish. And then, I mean, look at the lines on the hood of this thing. It's a gorgeous vehicle. The rear fenders, that sort of fastback almost shooting brake, roofline to the rear deck, it looks the business. I love it.

GREG MIGLIORE: I really take my hat off to Genesis here. They rolled out all the awesome concept car plays. Nice color, coupe-- hey, who'd have thought that? Do a coupe? No, it doesn't have to be an SUV. Let's do a two door kind of sporty luxury thing. I think it looks great. They have some connections to like a racetrack, I think, to different parts of it. And to me, this reminds me of when Cadillac was rolling out those coupes 10 years ago at Pebble Beach every couple of years. And so it's good to see. I think it's just a nice attention getter. Yeah.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. And this design on this was led by Luke Docker volke who is-- I think he's just a fantastic designer. He's a cool guy. I've watched him draw on napkins at dinner. And it's really, really interesting. And his process is really-- he's an interesting guy to talk to. But he's a legit designer. He's one of the best in the business right now, in my opinion. And it shows here with this Genesis.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. No, I think this is a good move for Genesis. Get people talking about the brand and have some fun. That's kind of what auto shows are supposed to be.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, while we're talking about performance or at least the idea of performance, the Deus Vayanne-- I guess I'm saying that right.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Deus.

GREG MIGLIORE: Deus?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Like the Latin word for God which is-- seems like a little hubris for this company. Deus Vayanne.

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow. OK. That's not coming in quietly. That's-- wow. I didn't realize that. I mean, I know Latin is a dead language. But maybe it's just hibernating. But leave it to the car industry to try to bring it back, right?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Right. Yeah, it's an ambitious name and it's an ambitious car. It's an electric hypercar. They say they're targeting 2,200 horsepower, which is incredible, and 1,475 pound feet of torque and top speed of 248 miles per hour. 0 to 62 in less than two seconds, less than-- they specify less than 1.99 seconds. But they don't really tell you how they're going to do that. They didn't give any details about the battery or the motors or anything. But they're working with Williams in [INAUDIBLE] design--

GREG MIGLIORE: Two pretty good names.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --to make this. Yeah. It's some outfit out of Vienna, Austria. And I guess that's where the Vayanne sort of is a nod to Vienna.

GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: But, yeah, it's one of those things that's the first time we've seen it, kind of came out of nowhere, kind of easy to write it off as most likely vaporware. But we'll see. [LAUGHS] It'd be cool to see the limits of performance get pushed even further by an electric vehicle. I don't think it's a necessary goal. It's not as important as like putting someone on the moon or something. But if they're going to do it, if they're going to try it, why not? Root them on.

GREG MIGLIORE: Go for it.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And they're only going to make 99 of them, and they're supposed to come out in 2025. And they haven't said what the price is going to be, but I imagine it's going to be a pretty penny. But I don't know. This thing kind of looks like a-- looks like a lotus to me with just a weird sort of front and rear fascia. But it's kind of got that lotus vibe to me in terms of its proportions.

GREG MIGLIORE: The rear, the back end is crazy. I don't even know what to make of that, those aligned tail lights sort of thing.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: It reminds me of almost like the front end of some of those Mercedes electric concepts in the last couple of years, but yeah. No, I mean, say what you want. New York was not boring this year. I mean, this is like hey, let's throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks. I think we've hit the show pretty hard here. A couple of things we should probably go back and mop up though-- there's a new Niro complete with arrow blades which I think look awesome. There's a nice piece road test editor Zac Palmer was at Javits at the convention center. And he got up close with that. So if you're listening to this, that's on the site now. So check that out. Really interesting read. This is nice. Kia has done a really good job with the Niro. I think the only thing they could do better is really amplify it so more people know about it and what just the scope and the range that the Niro product line offers. But--

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: The Niro is a fantastic vehicle. And I especially like the Niro EV. I like it quite a bit. I've driven it and really, really enjoyed it. It feels very sporty. The design is sort of funky and out there. But I think they've sort of dialed it in a little bit with this refresh, with this new generation. I'm glad that they are still making investments in this platform because it's a good EV and it deserves to stick around. I know they're coming out with a lot more, but I'm glad to see that they aren't just sort of letting this one linger in the shadows and they're continuing to update it and improve it.

GREG MIGLIORE: I think that perfectly sums up the next car we're going to run to real quick which, is the 2023 Nissan Leaf. Still there. It's a pretty good deal actually. Some very light updates. I think New York, again, is a good show for Nissan and the Leaf. I think, it's very utilitarian EV.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's been around forever. Remember, its original archrival was the Chevy Volt with a V.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. Those were the two.

GREG MIGLIORE: And they were the ones that even made like the EPA come out with the MPG-E, that whole way to explain fuel economy and efficiency. But the good old Leaf is hanging around and it's a little better anyway.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. And I mean the ARIA has been sort of pushed back in a couple of markets due to supply constraints. I don't know if that's going to happen here. They haven't said anything about it being delayed in the US. But it's supposed to come out a little bit earlier in Japan. But with that being pushed back, maybe the leaf is still looking a little more appetizing to someone looking for just a Super solid straightforward commuter EV. And the leaf does that very well.

I've been thinking lately about my next daily driver. It'd be good to have something that I could just leave the car seats in and whatnot. I would love to get a Hyundai Ioniq 5 or something. But like I said, it wouldn't be driven all the time. It would just be for me, moving the kids around and running for groceries. But I've been considering-- a used Leaf sounds like a great buy for me. Our former editor, Alex Kirstein, when he was here, he actually did that. He bought a used Leaf and loved it. And it's a car that I've driven a bunch of times and have always been happy with. It's not anything flashy or particularly special. But it gets the job done and it gets it done well and efficiently.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting because the Leaf was and is an all electric car whereas the Volt was sort of built as an electric car, but really it was just a plug-in hybrid with a good amount of front end range, if you will, which is plenty. And to me, it almost shows a little bit of the-- it demonstrates, I think, the marketing muscle of General Motors. They like they made that car like their moon landing if you will. And it was out everywhere whereas the Leaf did kind of fly below the radar in a lot of places. But I mean, I guess, at the end of the day, the Volt has been gone for three or four years and the Leaf lives on. So pretty cool.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. And the ARIA will be here soon. So we'll have sort of a Leaf inspired crossover with all wheel drive.

GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me. And real quick too talk about the Ioniq 5. I saw that basically swept the world car of the Year awards which-- sometimes we look at those and-- the Ioniq 5 is just-- it's so impressive to me from the design, the way it drives, the interior. Honestly, I cannot wait to drive it again. When I make my list of things I want to get into this year, I drove that once last fall. And I'm not even kidding, it was the most sought after car vehicle to get into at this group test I was at. And I only got into it for like 30 minutes. And it was basically because I stood by where the keys were being signed out and was like, OK, it's here. Here you go, Greg. You can take it. It's your turn now.

So I mean, I really would love to spend a week with one. And the design has really grown on me too. It's got a lot of the-- I don't know. I would almost put it as like a 1980s sort of aesthetic but fully modern and futuristic which I think is a really good look.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It would be right in place on the set of Robocop in my opinion.

GREG MIGLIORE: And that sounds great to me. That sounds good. Yeah, I think we hit everything here. Let me see. We went through the Niro, the Leaf--

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: There's the new Rock Creek.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Gets a little bit more off roady and 11 more horsepower. And yeah, new badges. You get updated with the new Nissan badge. But yeah, it's not really a whole lot new there. But yeah, it'll be a little better off road.

GREG MIGLIORE: One take away with the Pathfinder is I think the identity now is taking root for the last few years, the last-- this car and then the last generation-- of being like a Pathfinder off road vehicle. For a while, it was kind of like what is this thing, did it get a little soft probably purposefully to sell more of them.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: And then for this new generation, they're like, it's four wheel drive, even though it's really not four wheel drive. And really, the commercials show this rough and tough off road thing. And then when you start throwing out Rock Creek editions, it's pretty clear how they're trying to position it. And I think that's great. I think that's kind of what people want right now is they want to identify that way with their car.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. And they want to do those things with their car more than they did pre-covid, I think. People have gotten back in touch with the outdoors because that's basically where you could go and have fun when you couldn't sit inside an arena and do stuff or a lot of the indoor entertainment was just not as accessible. And so people made their way outdoors. And that's being reflected in cars all over the place and definitely here at the New York Auto Show.

GREG MIGLIORE: Since the pandemic, we have gotten into-- the zoo has become a year round activity because why not? There's a Nature Center near us that is like a great just kind of afternoon weekend kind of thing.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: I would say this-- that's been a nice honestly side effect of the pandemic is you start to look around, you're like, well, OK, what do we want to do. Well, hey, there's this stuff. Maybe we would have, I don't know, done something else before. And it's just-- that's been nice. Now we don't have a off road tuned vehicle to do this mainly because this stuff's just not that far off road. But no, I hear you. The Branco and the Wrangler really were popular, especially in 2020. They're always popular, right? But we saw--

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Branco came out at the perfect time.

GREG MIGLIORE: 100%. I mean, literally, those commercials captured the tone of people wanting to get away and-- yeah. So I think we hit the New York Auto Show pretty hard. Zac, Joel, and Ammar were all on site. So as they come onto the show in the coming weeks, we'll probably get some more first person just like flavor of the show, just feel what it's like.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. They're there talking to people and finding out some interesting tidbits.

GREG MIGLIORE: It was actually-- I found it really easy to just watch the reveals and really do impressions this year. And it felt like an Auto Show as opposed to like, Oh, hey. Here's to reveals walk around and lunch.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. Yeah. It definitely feels like the auto shows we know and love. Glad to see it back, especially when auto shows seemed to be in decline even before COVID. Everyone was worried about auto shows going away. And I'm glad to see that this one was successful and downright entertaining.

GREG MIGLIORE: This is a good template too. I think a lot of times being based in Michigan, we tend to view it through the very upper crust of auto shows which Detroit is one of the top three in the world, right, at least in the historic rankings. And then you put in like Geneva and then sometimes Frankfurt, maybe Paris, maybe not. Sometimes Tokyo, sometimes Shanghai or Beijing. But that like upper crust.

And Detroit was the number one Auto Show in America. But it was also based on a very high profile media day. This is where all the important cars were revealed. It's where Elon Musk would be, Mary Barra would be, Bill Ford-- it was the show. And what you're seeing in New York was not so much like famous CEOs or even the most jaw dropping reveals. And I think part of this is still a little pandemic influenced. But it was just notable products in front of an influential crowd. Some other brands took some risks with their concepts, which I think is-- I love that in auto shows. And it was just-- it was a good solid show.

And I think in some ways, these almost mid-level shows are on stronger footing right now. New York and LA both have put out very strong performances in the last, what, five months here whereas Detroit had kind of an uneven Motor Bella thing which was cool. But I mean, people weren't even sure they could get it in right there. And now they're going to do one in the fall and I'm excited to see how that turns out. Is it going to be as newsworthy as it was in the past? Are you going to be more like Chicago where it's just, hey, we're going to make it more of an event and less newsworthy? I mean, Geneva has been canceled for three years now.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: I haven't heard anything about the next Paris Auto Show. Some of the Blue Bloods, if you will, don't necessarily seem to have as much of a path forward. But we'll see. I mean, there's always going to be a Detroit Auto Show. It's just what's going to be the identity. And just looking at New York, it was, I would say, heartening to see some semblance of a traditional Auto Show pulling itself together. That's good for our business, right? And--

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, absolutely.

GREG MIGLIORE: So that was good to see.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And it's good for car fans and it's good for consumers too who want to get to know the products better before they go out and buy something.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. All right, well, we'll hit on our news segment here real quick. My Advil has kicked in, so I guess I'm ready to weigh into this. Elon Musk is trying to buy Twitter. This is really escalated quickly. It went from like just sort of like a quiet stock by up until he owned like over 9% of the company. It seemed like it was going to be a passive maneuver. Cynically, I never really thought it was going to be. And now here it is-- Thursday, he's trying to buy the company.

We won't get into this too much because literally, the Twitter board is going to meet today. And I believe Musk is scheduled to do like a Ted Talk or something. By the time you hear this, something's going to be different. But I'm curious. Here's what I think is going to happen, and I'll be wrong in five minutes probably-- I don't think Twitter is going to agree to this. I feel like they're going to find a way to push him back. And that'll eventually be that.

It reminds me a little bit, to make this a little more automotive themed, is when Kirk Kerkorian kept trying to buy Chrysler and take it over. And then he did the same thing with General Motors. So it's a chess move. It doesn't necessarily mean he's going to buy the company or wants to buy it. I think Elon Musk wouldn't mind it if they said yes and he took over. But I don't know. But to me, this definitely feels like a chess move.

And then my other kind of take away is this really underscores. I think Elon Musk is, for good or bad, is one of the most transcendent business people of the 21st century because in Autoblog, we think of them as Tesla. But he's SpaceX, he could be Twitter. There's a few other ventures he's doing that I'm blanking on. I mean, he's trying to play in every area. He's not just trying to be a bill forward. He's trying to be-- who would be a good comparison? Like JP Morgan, Carnegie, somebody like that, the Vanderbilt's who-- I mean, they did sort of have their areas of the economy going back to finance and the Industrial Revolution.