'Summer House: Martha's Vineyard' stars Jasmine & Silas Cooper on putting their marriage in the spotlight

Jasmine and Silas Cooper are ready for the glare of the spotlight. Gibson Johns interviews the couple at the center of Bravo's latest series, "Summer House: Martha's Vineyard" about jumping head-first into the world of reality TV with a bunch of their friends, feeling the scrutiny from their housemates this season and how being married affects some of their closest friendships. They also discuss comparisons between "Martha's Vineyard" and the original "Summer House," how their experience differs from Kyle Cooke and Amanda Batula's, what fans can expect from their show and much more.

Video Transcript

GIBSON JOHNS: Hi, guys. Welcome back to "We Should Talk," a pop culture interview series from In The Know. I'm your host, Gibson Johns. And before we get started, you know, we've been off for the past two weeks. A couple of bookings fell through, some stuff going on behind the scenes. But we are back with two people from the new "Summer House-- Martha's Vineyard" on Bravo.

We have Jasmine and Silas, who are sort of like the central couple on the show. They're sort of like the Kyle and Amanda of this Summer House. They're the connective tissue. They brought a lot of the people into this share house. And I've watched the premiere. And I know I like a lot of these shows. I know I usually say to watch them, but this one is really great.


It's incredibly promising. And I know a lot of people aren't loving this current season of the original "Summer House," so give "Martha's Vineyard" a shot. It comes up on Sunday, May 7 at 9:00 PM right after The Real Housewives of Atlanta premiere, which is at 8:00 PM. But I'd love to get some time with Jasmine and Silas, you know.

Again, they sort of brought a lot of these people into the house, into the group. And so it only made the most sense to really talk to them first. And again, they really do kind of play that Kyle and Amanda role, where like, there's a lot of input on their relationship this season from their friends, and they had just gotten married earlier in the summer before the filming started. So they were newly married, and that sort of new dynamic coming in to change the friend group up a little bit.

But there's a lot of promise here, a lot of great personalities. And I'm really excited about this show. So give it a chance. Watch it. Support the show. It's on at 9:00 PM this Sunday, May 7. And during this chat, we had a couple of technical difficulties. So I think we smoothed out most of the sound. There might be some misalignment on the video, but it's a great chat. So keep listening for my interview with Silas and Jasmine from "Summer House-- Martha's Vineyard."

Tune into the series premiere on Sunday, May 7 at 9:00 PM on Bravo. And please rate, review, and subscribe to "We Should Talk" on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's good to be back.


All right. So we are here with Jasmine and Silas from "Summer House-- Martha's Vineyard," Bravo's latest show. I've watched your premier, you guys. It is fantastic. Jasmine and Silas, how are you? Thanks for being here.

JASMINE COOPER: We're great. We're excited that you're excited about it because that means it's only a couple more days until the rest of the world's excited about it.

SILAS COOPER: And we can't wait for the Bravo audience to be like that 13th member in the house with us, right, like going through the ups and downs, the parties, the drunk nights, the petty arguments, running like--

JASMINE COOPER: We're literally like family in that house, and you're going to feel like our cousin.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. And so we can't wait for the audience to go through all of it with us.

GIBSON JOHNS: And so you guys are really-- I mean you're kind of like the central connective tissue of the share house. You're kind of the main couple. I mean, with a few exceptions, I think, that are sort of friends of friends. You guys were sort of in charge of bringing people in. Like, a lot of these are people that you guys knew and brought together.

So what goes through-- what do you take into consideration when you're thinking about, OK who's going to work for this house? That's a share house for two weeks, but also it's a TV show. So what do you think about when you were thinking about who to bring?

JASMINE COOPER: I got it, babe. So he stays looking at me like. [CHUCKLES] So for me, again, this is our third year doing this.


JASMINE COOPER: But what went into consideration is, can we get some matches so we can have more couples like us--


JASMINE COOPER: --or at least people that are fun to have fun with. Most of these people are friends, were there at our wedding. So this was the first time us seeing them and having a vacation as a complete married couple. And I think just vibes, really good vibes, good conversation. You always need someone to encourage everyone to have shots.

You always need someone that's styling and profile and like Nick. You need someone new. We always try to expose someone new to the island.


JASMINE COOPER: Because-- like Amir because not everyone knows about it, and now they do.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. And it was just-- and as you can see like the folks that are there this summer, like they've been invited before. They were there like the summer before. So there is a lot of-- some old faces there, right, and then considering, we're like, OK.

Every one of the old faces were like, yo, I'm game. Let's do it. Let's come back. And then just finding folks that we felt could complement everybody, right?


SILAS COOPER: And so that's what it came down to. And everyone brought something to the table, right, Nick with the styling and profiling, like--

JASMINE COOPER: Alex with his intentional living and yoga--


JASMINE COOPER: --which I missed out on everyday because I was--


SILAS COOPER: Yeah. And then Preston with just being the sort of like resident counselor/ peacemaker/ party goer, like--

JASMINE COOPER: He and Jason both were like making peace all over the house.

SILAS COOPER: Absolutely. You know--

GIBSON JOHNS: Which was needed at some points. It was needed.

SILAS COOPER: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And then Bria just being the resident princess, right? And you need one of that, right, so--

JASMINE COOPER: That's a good way to put it.

SILAS COOPER: That's just-- everything just came to [INAUDIBLE] princess energy.

GIBSON JOHNS: You know, and I mean, the first episode, we're seeing that with the dog, and that's a whole point of drama already. So you guys really-- you guys really don't waste any time kind of getting into it. And I think that it kind of speaks to what you guys are saying, which is like, I think these shows work best when there's actual history with a lot of the group, right?

Like, it's like you guys are clearly friends with most of these people. But I think throwing some newer faces in there also helps because it's kind of, OK, how am I going to get along with this person? So I think it's a really nice mix of that. Did you guys feel that in the moment?

JASMINE COOPER: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we started dating in the pandemic. We matched on Hinge.

GIBSON JOHNS: Oh, no way. I love that.

JASMINE COOPER: Shout out to hinge. The first trip we took together was to Martha's Vineyard. But with this group specifically and this year, you know, every year is different, it really is what happens when you get married. My friend's getting to know his friends. They've probably been in the same party or situation or even the wedding before, but they're familiar with at least one of us.

And now you're seeing that kind of mixed a little bit. And even last year it was a little bit different, so yeah. But at the end of the day, I just I'm just trying to make matches.


JASMINE COOPER: And look, one thing that I-- like, by the way, she is the resident matchmaker. I'm like, listen, I'm your assistant. Let me know what you need.

GIBSON JOHNS: You're the human Hinge. They don't need Hinge. They just need Jasmine.


SILAS COOPER: That's it.

JASMINE COOPER: You don't need Hinge. You got us.

SILAS COOPER: You got us. We'll make it happen. And so I think getting to know people-- like even though these are our friends, where I would know them for years, I think being in the house, we had a chance to get to know them more deeply, right?

You'll see that with the theme parties, right? Each of the theme parties, you get to know something, you know, that we didn't know before about this-- I have known Preston now for nearly six years, right? And I learned more about him throughout the house, you know. So that's the cool part, is like even the people we didn't deeply, we got to know better, right? And the audience get to know them better too.

JASMINE COOPER: I think that's just the only thing that being on a show did was really get to test those relationships and force us to kind of meet the moment. We're all changing. All of our lives are-- you know, we're in our late 20s to late 30s, meaning there's a lot of change in all of our lives. And being in this situation or scenario of doing what we would normally do but with cameras, it just sped that up.


GIBSON JOHNS: Totally, yeah. And you know, obviously, this is "Summer House-- Martha's Vineyard," and we've been watching the "Summer House" in the Hamptons for six or seven years at this point. And I think the biggest difference in sort of format is that you guys were there for two straight weeks and basically on one long friend vacation, whereas like, we track them for an entire summer but for a check in on the weekends, as they go to the house.

So it's a little bit different. So you guys are-- it's almost like "Winter House," where it's like it's a little truncated and like, it probably, I'm guessing, intensifies the drama. Like, you're not leaving each other. You're not getting the break in the city during the week. So is that what it felt like, where it's like, OK, like we don't really have a break from one another?


JASMINE COOPER: Yeah. Listen, Silas is one of the people that worked from home. I think he and Preston were like the only ones really working while on vacation. But to your point, no one's driving to New York to cool off.


JASMINE COOPER: Martha's Vineyard in and of itself is a little difficult to get to. You're either coming on a plane or a ferry. Those are the only two ways in, no other way, and that becomes a little difficult at times. So just-- let's just stay. And whatever we're going through, we're going to work through it because we're all going to wake up the next morning and still see each other's faces.

SILAS COOPER: And that was, I think, a major part. And it's like--

JASMINE COOPER: The cooking breakfast.

SILAS COOPER: They're cooking breakfast. Like, hey, man. I know we were beefing yesterday, but you want some eggs? [CHUCKLES] You know what I mean? So it's like eventually we got to figure this thing out, and I think that's the cool part about being there the entire time. And you know, you just learn a lot about everybody.

And working throughout the-- I was working for like, yeah, the entire time there. And that work life balance that we all speak about is like, there's one thing to keep. It's another thing with being around like, your drunk friends and feeling some FOMO and like--

GIBSON JOHNS: That's not balance. That's just a mixing of pleasure and work.

SILAS COOPER: It is. I know.

JASMINE COOPER: It's a set up.

SILAS COOPER: It's really a setup, but it was-- we managed to have a really good time. And I think having people around us that was there for that same reason, to have a good time, that really helped.

GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah. Yeah. And also, like you said, sort of like having breakfast with the person that you might have had an argument with the night before, it really does it really does kind of force conflict resolution. Like, it's like, OK, we have to figure this out. Like, we can't escape each other. So let's figure out a way forward or another. So I think that that's-- or is that not the case?

JASMINE COOPER: Well, I made that face because that's something I'm still learning. I'm a person that I see the glass half full. And so whenever there is conflict, and you'll see this, and I'm not going to hide it, I'm still working on being direct about what's going on, instead of being like, OK, guys. Let's go to this place and event over here. Like, I do love hosting, but sometimes there's moments where you have to focus on what's happening in the moment.

And you do get to see that this season. And that is clearly something that I am not the best at.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. Listen, I'm so proud of her, because I mean, there was a lot of like just new sides of her that I saw this summer, right? First of all, she is like, the hostess with the-- like, she gets things done, right? Like, you'll see that throughout the process.

But another part is like, this bright energy, this bubbly person that I'm like, so in love with. I get to see a side of her where it's like, you also-- like, she's not somebody to be fucked with, right? Like-- hey It's like she'll let you know--


SILAS COOPER: But in her own nice way, right? Sort of your-- like, sort of that bless your heart energy, right, you know what I mean?

JASMINE COOPER: I'm form the Midwest by way of Atlanta, so I'm going to keep it really cute at all times. That's just-- I'm a class act. I'll be the first to say it.

GIBSON JOHNS: Listen, I'm not going to argue--

SILAS COOPER: You'll get to see.



You'll get to see some of that, and just seeing her interact with other folks. and it was a learning process for me too.


GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally.

JASMINE COOPER: You did good though.

GIBSON JOHNS: Did you guys--

JASMINE COOPER: He literally had a [INAUDIBLE] with all of my friends.

GIBSON JOHNS: That's good. That's good. There we go.



Did you-- how much of the first "Summer House" or the Hampton "Summer House" did you guys watch before doing this show?

JASMINE COOPER: So we didn't initially know that it was going to be under the "Summer House" umbrella.

GIBSON JOHNS: Oh, got it.

JASMINE COOPER: We just knew it was going to be on the network. And so with that, we just did what we normally would do, but we did try to look at a little bit of everything that kind of seems like what we were doing. And "Summer House" and "Winter House" kind of came to that. So we were familiar with some episodes just to see what we were getting into.

And then when it was confirmed, it was like, OK, good. We were kind of tracking it.

SILAS COOPER: We were kind of-- because they didn't tell us until after filming, right? And that like--

GIBSON JOHNS: Right. And that can happen. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

SILAS COOPER: Like, it helps being under this umbrella because these are fun people. We watched the show. And we're like, I could definitely see myself partying with Kyle and like--

GIBSON JOHNS: 100%. Bring on the crossover. Come on. Take the ferry.

SILAS COOPER: Let's have a drink, or let's take some shots with Ciara and Mya, and these are fun folks, right? And so it's actually dope that we're under this umbrella.

GIBSON JOHNS: I think so too. But one of the reasons why I asked that is because I think for so long on "Summer House," we had kind of Kyle and Amanda in your situation, which is like, again, being that central couple that is the connective tissue. And because of that, any issues that they have had were kind of intensified or put under the spotlight more just because of being in that position.

So I'm wondering if you felt that during your trip. And did that make you guys nervous at all sort of being, again, that primary couple this time?


JASMINE COOPER: You can go ahead and answer.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah, absolutely. Listen, going in, and-- you know, you wouldn't think anything would change because it's still Jasmine and Silas from the year before that hosted you guys, and we had none of these problems. But I think having that like, married, right next to you, I think just sort of changes that dynamic.

It's the expectation, right? And it's like, I think part of it is fun that they're celebrating with us, and they're there to see us through this journey. But another part of it is like, the pressure of feeling like you have to uphold this institution, right? And it's kind of like the I versus the we, right?

I just want to have a good time and be with the woman I love. The we says like, oh, we have to exhibit what married couples do. And it's like-- you know, that's a lot of pressure.

JASMINE COOPER: And I see a lot of my friends who are single, and they do want love, whatever that looks like for them. And it-- for me, especially, you know, understanding that I am one of the first of all my friends to get married, yeah, I feel like how we, our dynamic, could influence or make or break them even wanting to still be married. Especially considering how hard it is dating nowadays.

So yeah, any little extra nick or crack in our unit, it did feel like the consequences, in terms of their perception was so high.

SILAS COOPER: And also, and I told babe this throughout the process. I'm like, it feels a little bit weird being like, the pseudo dad of the house when I'm one of the youngest men here. Like, that was the part that was super weird, right? It as like--



JASMINE COOPER: We were like dad and mom.

SILAS COOPER: We were like dad and mom. And I'm like, all of these guys, like, I was-- like, they're older than me. I go to them for advice. And you know, but it's like--

GIBSON JOHNS: Too young for this [BLEEP].

SILAS COOPER: And it's like, now I have to watch-- Yeah!


I'm like, what is happening? I know I already lost all of my hair, so I couldn't lose anymore. But it's like, man, this is a lot. This is a lot. So listen, you know, there were fun times, but some pressure. Yeah.

GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah. Yeah. And Jasmine, I feel like for you one of the kind of central issues this season is just going to be sort of working through the tension of like, OK, who were you before you got married, with Jordan, going out, being in the city, and it's sort of, how does being married change or not change that, and sort of working through some of that.

It seems like we're already getting hints of that in this first episode, I think. And so I'm curious, I don't know, like, are we going to see you fully work through that? Is that something that's sort of an ongoing process for you? Because that is a difficult thing to kind of balance, I think.

JASMINE COOPER: Yeah. I think we're definitely going to make a lot of strides in the conversation. But it's such a-- there's so much nuance to the conversation of the whole Jordan, Silas, or just my husband and my friend that I go out with, that conversation. Look, anyone who gets married can tell you. If you're the exact same person and you're operating the same way, people will look at you as disrespectful. Because it's like, hello, this huge life event happened.

But I can't say it's completely resolved. It's not. There's a lot of working through what me hanging out with my friends look like now. And same for him, especially with his schedule. So his friends don't really see him that much at all just because he's such a hard working person. But for me, I have a little bit more time to hang out with my girls. And sometimes, the little time that he has, I want to spend with my man.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. And look, Jasmine and I had a conversation about this, where it's like, I'm like, you know what, babe. It would be perfectly reasonable for you as my wife to say, hey, I want my husband home at a reasonable time, not to be hanging out all night with the guys, not to be drinking and not letting me know and update me.

And I'm like, you know what? That is true, and that comes with marriage. It's like kind of a mutual respect that comes with it. And so when my wife calls me and say, hey, babe. Where are you at? And if it's like 02:30, I might catch a Uber back, right? And it's not her feeling like I have to do this and do that. It's just mutual respect for this woman I love.

And then having to consider somebody else, I think that's the biggest part. It's like, oh, man. Like, I make my own decisions, but it impacts her, right?

JASMINE COOPER: And vise versa.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah, and vise versa.

JASMINE COOPER: That's the logical thing, but--


JASMINE COOPER: It's funny because you see it with Carl and Lindsay now. [INAUDIBLE] Something that's happening this season that I've noticed is--


JASMINE COOPER: --this whole conversation about Lindsay just operating different. And she's like, I'm just willing to compromise.


JASMINE COOPER: Because that's what you do in your friendships and in marriage. It's give and take, so I don't see it should be treated any differently.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. , But this is new for our friends, too. So we give them grace, right? They're looking at us, and they're like, oh my God, like-- you know, what [INAUDIBLE] telling you. And I'm like, we get it. It's new for you. It's new for us. So we got to give you grace to accept that it's new for you too, so it's all new for everybody here. Let's work it out, you know.

GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah. Yeah. I think that connection to the Carl, Lindsay, Danielle situation is actually pretty applicable here. There's some nuances, but that actually is a really good comparison. And I think that it sort of gets into this thing, again, that we see on the other "Summer House," which is like, already in this first episode and the trailer for this one, it's like, we see Jordan, who say who says, you know, Jasmine's a different person since she got married.

We see a conversation, Silas, I think you have with some of the guys, who they kind of are like, are you controlling of Jasmine? And I think it gets into this idea of like, when you're in these situations, how much do you let the input of others kind of penetrate the boundary of your relationship?


GIBSON JOHNS: But then also like, oh, like, is this something that we should take a look at, you know what I mean? So like how do you sort of balance that to sort of maintain true to yourself, but also maybe if these are valid things that they're bringing up? You know what I mean?


JASMINE COOPER: I think at the end of the day, according to a marriage certificate, this is my person, and I'm sticking besides him.

GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally.


JASMINE COOPER: And the thing--


JASMINE COOPER: --that makes decision making a little bit easier is anyone who meets Silas or anything, you'll see throughout the show. His dedication level is up here to everyone around him, including me. And so the same energy that he gives me in terms of just trying to be a new husband figuring out how to communicate his needs, same thing in the house. He's going to get that same respect to everybody else.

Hey, this person, you're going through a situation. How can I be there for you? Hey, LV, what do you need from me? How can I be there for you? It's just who he is. But navigating and finding that balance of people's input, we're always going to take into consideration. But at the end of the day, there's only he and I at the deliberation board.

SILAS COOPER: And look. Clearly, these are folks that we care about, right?


SILAS COOPER: We care about them, and they're in our space. We're sharing this house together because these are people that we care about, we trust, and the new folks, we welcome that. And I'm always willing to listen to advice, right? I don't claim to know it all. Like, we haven't-- like, June makes one year since we've been married.

JASMINE COOPER: We're not even there yet.


SILAS COOPER: There's so much to learn, you know. I think if it's out of a place of love and it's constructive, I'll definitely listen, you know. But she's right. At the end of the day, the decisions come down to this woman I love and myself. And so we'll hear you out, but this is the chairman of the board right here, right? This is the board right here.

JASMINE COOPER: My Granny always said--

SILAS COOPER: Chairman and chairwoman of the board.

JASMINE COOPER: --the woman's the neck. If the man's the head, the woman's the neck. So nothing happens without my say. And vise versa.

SILAS COOPER: Vise versa.

JASMINE COOPER: It's just respect.

SILAS COOPER: And listen. Wouldn't you love to have your wife actually like be happy? Like, why would I-- it's so nonsensical to me to like-- obviously, I check in with this woman with every decision to make sure that-- you know, because it impacts both of us. And you'll see during the show too that we're struggling to maintain a routine, right?


SILAS COOPER: Because it's like, wait a minute. We're not even in--

GIBSON JOHNS: It's impossible in a shared house. Impossible. Yep.


SILAS COOPER: I mean, I think that's the biggest thing the audience will see, is like, oh my God. Like, they are a work in progress, which, you're right. [CHUCKLES] You're right.

JASMINE COOPER: The Lord's working on us.


GIBSON JOHNS: Before we end it, you know, I think something that, again, struck me, just from this first episode is just like I mean, you both kind of gave us glimpses into your back stories. I'm sure we'll learn more about each of you as the episodes go on. But you both have pretty remarkable back stories.

Silas, your family coming to this country to avoid a Civil War. And Jasmine, you were living out of your car six years ago, which is just like-- I mean, and now you're on a reality show showing off this amazing life that you've built together and with your friends. And you know, you're vacationing in this incredibly affluent enclave of people in Martha's Vineyard.

And it just-- I think just like, your stories are really incredible to consider where you are. And I'm just wondering is this whole time around the premiere kind of like a pinch you moment a little bit? Because it's like, OK, whoa. Like, almost how did we get here? Because it's pretty cool.


SILAS COOPER: Yeah. It's like, you know, I see it as like, I think Jasmine really is my lucky charm, right? Because it's like, there's been so many things that just-- so many things have gone right. And whether it's like training going well, and it's like, jobs going well, families doing well, so many things are going right. And to have this just hit is just kind of like one of those like, you know, it's one of those points on the board of things that have been going right in my life since meeting this woman.

And the fact that we're able to share this moment with the people around us, like the group of friends that we have is even better, right? So yeah, there is a part that feels like, is this real, right? Am I here right now? Are we on an interview? Like, is this, you know--


SILAS COOPER: But marrying her felt that way.


As well. Like, our wedding day felt that way.


SILAS COOPER: I was looking across. And you know, I'm looking at this woman, and I'm like, man. [CHUCKLES]

GIBSON JOHNS: I love it.


JASMINE COOPER: I mean, look. Even the fact that we're talking to you right now is just so surreal. But I think it's hard to have challenges, as everyone does, and try to be the best you you can be and be service minded and really just-- I mean, the whole fact that we love being around our family. [INAUDIBLE]

SILAS COOPER: Good village.

JASMINE COOPER: Yeah. It's going to have it's ups and downs, but I'm just blessed that we don't even look like or have the residue essentially, of what we've been through.

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. And I think we're blessed because you know-- and you'll see, even the folks on the show with us. And we'll get a chance to-- you'll see when we interact with our family members right down the line. You'll get to see what makes us who we are--

GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally.

SILAS COOPER: --and the village around us is just incredible.

GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah. I can't wait for more. I can't wait for more from you guys. So before--

SILAS COOPER: Yeah. We're excited too.

GIBSON JOHNS: What-- I mean, again, I've always seen this first episode. You've seen the first half of the episode. This is going to come out a couple of days before the premiere. What can people expect from this first season of the show? Because I mean, the trailer-- I was so impressed by the trailer alone because there's a lot packed in there. This is a good first season.


GIBSON JOHNS: This is a good first season. What else can we expect, from what you guys can remember from last summer?

JASMINE COOPER: So for those who haven't seen the trailer, go watch it. Of course, we premiere May 7, [INAUDIBLE] right after "The Real Housewives of Atlanta." But just like Atlanta, it will pull at your heartstrings, and you're on this roller coaster trying to hold on, but you're enjoying it.



SILAS COOPER: Yeah. If it's like--

JASMINE COOPER: You can expect that feeling over and over again.

SILAS COOPER: And I think one of our friends said this, that it feels like a combination of the original "Summer House" and like, "Real Housewives of Atlanta." It's like the two kind--

GIBSON JOHNS: A combo I'm not going to argue with ever.



JASMINE COOPER: We're their child.


GIBSON JOHNS: Oh, I like that.

SILAS COOPER: We're definitely excited.

GIBSON JOHNS: I mean, everyone's going to be tuning in for Atlanta, and then "Summer House." The back to back is-- I think they're calling it Show up, Show out Sundays. So I'm-- that's--

SILAS COOPER: Hey, I like that.


SILAS COOPER: I love that.

JASMINE COOPER: It feels accurate.

GIBSON JOHNS: Yes. Well, Silas and Jasmine, it's been so much fun to get some time with you. I'll see you at the premiere party next week, and I can't wait for everyone to fall in love with you guys on this show because you're off to a great start.

JASMINE COOPER: Thank you, Gibson.

SILAS COOPER: Thank you so much.

JASMINE COOPER: We appreciate that.

GIBSON JOHNS: Of course. Bye, guys.

Thanks for tuning in to "We Should Talk." I hope you enjoyed the interview. You can find out more about "In The Know" at You can follow me, Gibson Johns @gibsonoma on Twitter and Instagram. And you can listen to all of our interviews, past and future, by searching "We Should Talk" wherever you get your podcasts. Hope to see you next time.