New York Auto Show Special with the Ram REV, Kia EV9 and more | Autoblog Podcast #775

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer. They start off with what it was like to be at the New York Auto Show, then provide analysis on all the big reveals. The big reveals touched on include the 2025 Ram REV, 2024 Kia EV9, Genesis GV80 Coupe Concept, 2024 Hyundai Kona variants, 2024 Subaru Crosstrek Wilderness and 2024 Jeep Wrangler. They also touch briefly on some non-NY news with a refresh of the Mercedes-Benz GLS-Class. Lastly, the two discuss the cars they've been driving, including the 2023 Mercedes-AMG EQE and our long-term Toyota Sienna minivan.

Video Transcript

[HIGH-ENERGY ROCK MUSIC]

GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We have a great show for you this week. We spent the week at the New York Auto Show. Lots of big reveals there, from finally seeing the RAM Electric Truck in the flesh, in the sheet metal. That was pretty cool.

There were updates to the 2024 Jeep Wrangler-- which, hey, that's always interesting-- Kia EV9, Genesis GV80 coupe concept, and plenty of other things. It was a pretty-- it was a busy show for about half of the day, let's put it that way. It was a good show by the standards that are, sort of, new auto shows, if you will. Road Test editor Zac Palmer joined me there and he joins me now. How are you doing?

ZAC PALMER: I'm great. And yeah, that's kind of the perfect way to put it. For an Auto Show in 2023, it felt kind of jam-packed versus a lot of others that we've had here as of late. There was a lot of new stuff there, a lot of stuff we've never seen before and actual reveals. So that was neat to see.

GREG MIGLIORE: So we're recording this on Friday morning. That's a bit later than we normally do this. So by the time this drops, some of you guys will be listening to it on Friday afternoon, which is great. You know, enjoy obviously for the holiday weekend, too. If you have a minute while you're running errands, hopefully, this podcast gets into your feeds. You know, if you need to see more Saturday morning, you're going over what was going on in the car world, you know, with your coffee on your phone, head to the site.

We have galleries. We have a roundup. The editor's picks are going to go up today. As we're recording this, we don't actually know them. Perhaps I'll get that later in the day, which is kind of cool-- or later in the show.

So all that stuff's going to go up. News editor Joel Stocksdale was also there, and check out some of the great videos put together by producer [INAUDIBLE], who also was on the ground with us. And it was great to see everybody. It really was a good show.

Yeah, so let's get into some of these things. Kick off with the RAM. I mean, people like trucks-- or so I'm told, right? The RAM Rev 1500, you know, the numbers are pretty eye-popping-- just the range, the power, and how quick it'll charge. The only area that some people thought they under-delivered was the design. Not so much that it looks bad-- I think it looks pretty good-- but just that concept car that they showed a couple of months ago was so over the top that I think people thought that might really be the direction they'd go, but not really. And you talk to Ralph Giles, who's the head of design for Stellantis. And he explained what they were going for here.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, yeah, he really explained why that concept was so futuristic-looking versus the production truck is, is what it is today. That concept, at least to Stellantis, is going to predict trucks years into the future, not necessarily the truck that we have today. So maybe the next-gen, the next-gen Electric RAM, will have a design similar to that, with crazy stuff like the three rows, the wild mid-gate, and just all of these interesting and innovative features that the current one doesn't have because it's essentially-- I mean, if you didn't know all of the really cool stuff going on underneath it, it looks a lot like a RAM 1500 gasoline truck does today.

But like you were saying, there's a lot of really cool specs in here. I mean, just going over some of the big ones, this thing has the biggest battery pack that I've seen in any electric vehicle yet. I think it's even bigger than the Hummers.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: I think most people have estimated the Hummers to be just over 200 kilowatt-hours. RAM has already said the big one with 500 miles of range is going to have a 229 kilowatt-hour battery pack, which is just wild to think about. I mean, big vehicles like a BMW iX, or like a Mercedes EQS SUV, these are big, luxury, three-row SUVs. Those only have a 100 kilowatt-hour pack. This thing is double that and more.

So try to wrap your head around that. There's a lot of batteries in this thing. But that was one of the priorities for RAM. They wanted range. They didn't want any compromises. So here we are with a giant truck with, hopefully, no compromises in that respect.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting. I was at the press conference, which was really, by like New York standards, even past and present, they had their global CEO Carlos Tavares there-- which, frankly, at New York shows, you don't always see the CEO there. You see like the North American Chief or the boss of the brand. You don't necessarily see, like, the big guy, like Tavares is.

Which, so I thought really, they-- like really, between Stellantis, and then Hyundai Motor Co., because they had like three brands, they carried the show, basically. But going back to RAM a little bit, I thought they were almost defensive a little bit. Like they were like, revolutions take time. Revolutions are worth waiting for. Which is almost like they're-- I don't think it was tongue-in-cheek, but it was like defensive. Like, no, yeah, Ford and Chevy did it, but whatever. We're coming along too, and where's Tesla?

Like there was some subtext there that it seemed like they said, but then they didn't say some things. And I mean, my kind of thought on that is, if this comes out, and they could produce them, you know, without any like major issues-- which there's no reason not to at this point, right-- like there's no quality issues with the RAM. You know, it's a strong truck. They're going to be right in there with it. And it's going to be a very compelling product.

And at the end, nobody's going to remember that they were, maybe, a year after Ford and Chevy. And really, Chevy is not quite there yet either. So I think it's going to be really an interesting three-horse race.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, yeah, the way that I heard it described from [INAUDIBLE] and from other folks at Stellantis, the general gist of it is like, hey, we might not be first to the party, we might not be second, we might actually be last to the party, but we're gonna beat everyone once we do arrive.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: We're gonna have the most range, the best acceleration, the best towing. I mean, [INAUDIBLE] was even like, you know, we made sure that we had the biggest frunk. We have a bigger frunk than the Lightning, a bigger frunk than the Silverado. It's bigger. [LAUGHS]

So that's the general theme of this thing. And also, like you said, you know, they may be a little late, but they're really not that late. I mean, like the Silverado EV is a '24 model year thing. That's probably going to be produced in very low numbers. Sierra EV, similar story.

The Lightning is the one that really has just taken everything by storm and beaten everybody out there. But theoretically, if RAM delivers what they're saying they're going to deliver here, it will beat the Lightning in a lot of ways.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: And it's not like we prefer the F-150 over the RAM in a lot of other ways to start with. Honestly, we like the RAM 1500 more than any other truck. And here it is, an electric version. So I'm definitely psyched to see it come out.

GREG MIGLIORE: Same. I think, you know, what we do look at, like a few years ago when we were doing our Editor's Picks and our rankings for the Detroit 3 trucks-- and they're the only ones that get Editor's Picks from us. We don't give those out to any of the other competitors because, frankly, none of them are nearly as good. The RAM usually is our top-rated truck. It's usually at like a 9 or something because of the interior, because of the ride and comfort, because of the wide range of powertrain options you can get from it. And design is subjective, but most of our editors like the design. So you know, you just transplant some electric gear in there, and what's not to like?

So I'm very excited to drive it. You know, I think it strikes me as something that-- you know, the other thing is you come maybe six months, a little bit later, maybe you scoop up a bunch of Car of the Year Awards or something because, you know, the Lightning already won, you know? I mean, somebody's got to win in 2024, right? You know, I mean, so you can start to stack up some things that way. Not that a company would ever tweak their production cycles that way, but you know, sometimes being late-- and you're talking to somebody who's late for literally everything in his life-- so it's not the worst, not the worst thing, yeah.

ZAC PALMER: So long as you come in and beat everybody-- which is what RAM is really insisting they are going to do-- I think that this thing is going to sell like hotcakes.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I agree. It also-- it's all the RAM buyers and all the RAM EV buyers, Stellantis EV buyers, are going to look at this. And then you wonder what kind of new customers they can bring in, you know? That'll be interesting to see as well.

Because the Lightning looks like they're bringing in new electric buyers to the truck segment. I would think Chevy will do that. Tesla, of course, is gonna do that with the Cybertruck whenever that gets here. So we'll see.

ZAC PALMER: Yes indeed, yes indeed. Electric trucks, it's getting to be a busy market out there.

GREG MIGLIORE: I thought-- shifting gears, I thought the other really big headliner-- there were a couple-- but the EV9, the Kia three-row SUV, I thought that was just a stunning design display. I walked by it like four or five times. It was at the back of the hall. I made it like my business to keep going back and looking at it.

I tweeted this out, and I think this kind of sums up my thoughts pretty well-- I'd like to hear what you think-- is this could do for Kia like what the Telluride did for Kia. The only difference is this is also electric, and it's a three-row SUV, whereas the Telluride just was like a best-in-class three-row crossover that they had never done before. The company had never done something that ambitious, at that size and that nicely equipped.

You know, they've had some larger ish crossovers in the past, but the Telluride really put them in a different segment and perhaps appealed to a different set of consumers. I think the EV9 could do the same thing. And again, it's a crossover and it's electric, so I think they're gonna really crush it with this thing.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, there are like two really big angles from this car. I think Kia is really gonna be winning. Is, one, is they are pretty much the first non-luxury three-row electric SUV. There's none other out there. I mean, you have the Rivian R1s. And I should actually put an asterisk on that because full-size--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, yes.

ZAC PALMER: Because the EQB and the Model Y both offer three rows, but the third row is essentially useless in those cars. Like very, very small people can fit in there, but not much else. But like a full-size thing, you can chuck seven people in and everybody be comfortable. There's the EQS SUV and the Rivian R1s. And those are both so expensive.

This thing, on the other hand, it's a Kia. It's gonna be priced more like a Kia. We don't know the pricing yet. But reading between the lines. I think the number is probably gonna start with 5 somewhere, which puts it firmly in the more expensive side of the Telluride category, which is about where it belongs because it's like the same exact size as a Telluride. It's just a couple inches longer, same width, same height, all of the dimensions on the inside are the same as the Telluride.

So if you're like you have a Telluride now, and that works super well for your lifestyle, and you're like, hmm, I might go EV, this seems like the most natural possible fit. Another big thing with the EV9, though, is that this is the biggest push into premium-- not necessarily luxury, but definitely premium, that I've seen Kia take so far. The interior in this thing is really, really something to behold and is a lot nicer than any other Kia product I've ever seen.

They make a big deal about all of the vegan materials that they use throughout it, but I really just think that it's the general design, the layout, the level of features and luxury that you get with this thing. I mean, there are just some really, really neat features such as the full lay-back seats. People in both the front and second row can fully recline and just sleep while you're charging.

The driver assistant stuff, Kia threw a lighter on this. It should be one of the best lane-centering adaptive cruise control systems out there when it does come out with all these great new sensors. This thing just has a lot going for it, and like you said off the top, the design is just absolutely killing it.

It's a really, really cool-looking three-row SUV. It's boxy. It's got sharp angles. It's got interesting creases everywhere, and it looks good.

It's not just like confusing and modern and weird-looking to be weird. It's actually a cohesive design that really, really appeals to me. And I guarantee it's gonna appeal to a lot of people as well that are looking to buy something like this.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean, you know, when you say it's going to be in the 50s, you know, that's really appealing. You know, I think that's an area that a lot of people who are in the market for this type of vehicle, that's going to make them consider this, because why wouldn't you? You know, you can spend well into the 40s on a Telluride, maybe spend a little bit more and go all-electric.

DC fast charging is there. The cargo space is comparable to a Telluride. And again, the design is stunning to me. It looks like something out of like the Volvo Polestar kind of workshop.

So I think it's gonna be interesting. You know, and Kia has done a good job of like-- you know, I'd say 10 years ago, they did a really good job of scaling up their engine architectures, making better power trains, V6es, V8s, Turbo 4s-- and I'm speaking of Hyundai Motor Group at this point. And now, you're seeing them as they move into like electrification, they're really investing heavily. And these products, I think, are going to be compelling, and it should be interesting.

I mean, again, I thought this was definitely a winner as I kept skulking around the Kia stand. And there were a lot of people there, too. Like you probably notice this at the show-- like some brands would do their reveals, and then that was it. Other brands did the reveals, and then there were just people hanging out the rest of the day.

And Kia was one of those stands where it was just doing videos, just people sitting in their seats hanging out, looking at the cars, talking to the executives. Like they really do a crowd.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, it's a big deal car. I think that a lot of people realize it is. And one thing that I didn't even mentioned before is that like all of the electric platform stuff underneath it, it's all top shelf. It's the E-GMP platform with the 800-volt architecture, super fast charging, great range, lots of power. This thing really doesn't have any weak points, I don't think, which is one of the reasons why, you know, everybody's around. It's like, wow, this thing looks like a winner.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting, too, because I think Kia, they were another brand that wasn't first to the party in whatever segment-- in this case, the electric-- but they have a really good naming scheme. EV6, EV9, you know, like electric vehicle and then a number. The bigger it is in ascending order-- it makes total sense. You know, like we have a Mercedes we're gonna talk about in a minute, and that's-- their lineup's already getting confusing to me. So yeah, that's kind of a side note, but it's pretty good for them.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they have unlimited here. They can go EV7, EV5, Whatever. There actually already is an EV5, but it's for Korea.

So yeah, it's smart. And I think the people understand it because they're really getting their cars out there. And I've seen a lot of EV6es just around here in Michigan, anecdotally speaking.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, oh, definitely. It is that long-term, where we still have-- I enjoyed every minute of having that car here in my driveway. So all right, well, let's shift gears over to another Hyundai Motor Co. brand. This is the Genesis GV80. This is a coupe-styled crossover.

It was a "concept," air quotes, for like a minute. And they've already said they're going to build it. You were actually on the Genesis trip. You were there for a few days. What did you think of it?

ZAC PALMER: So I wasn't actually on that, that trip. That was Joel that was on that trip [INAUDIBLE].

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, right, right, right.

ZAC PALMER: I was on the Kia trip. But I went and checked out the Genesis real closely, and it was actually-- if I'm going to be honest, it might have been my car of this show.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK, got it.

ZAC PALMER: Like when I walked up to it, it was just one of those moments. It was like, wow, this is really, really cool.

GREG MIGLIORE: Cool.

ZAC PALMER: And I honestly-- I don't normally get excited about something like a crossover coupe, like an SUV coupe. But this, this to me is like the best-looking of all of them right now. And--

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow.

ZAC PALMER: --it's like this is how I think it should be executed.

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow.

ZAC PALMER: And you know, I don't know. I don't think I'm that biased from the orange paint, but man, I sure did love the orange, too. But just the way that they integrated the coupe roofline and body style to it, to the GV80, which is already a really good-looking car, I thought that was great. The few changes that they made to the front to make it sportier, I think that was great.

The interior of the concept was just like ridiculous. It has these four bucket seats, suede leather, orange accents. The backs of the seats are painted in orange. It is a really, really cool concept car.

If you're in New York, like, you absolutely have to go see it because I can almost guarantee that you're just gonna walk up to it and say, wow, this thing looks good. This thing looks really, really good.

So and they're gonna build it. They literally confirmed on that trip to Joel that they are going to build this thing. We're going to have a GV80 coupe, which just makes all the sense in the world. We already got a BMW X6 GLE coupe. All the Germans offer something similar to it. And I think that Genesis can come in there and look better than all of them, frankly. So I'm excited.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's to me-- this is, in some ways, like what the X4, the X6, some of the Mercedes and Audis, this is the design in the silhouette, in the stance that it feels like they never quite got right. And I like the X6 a little bit. Like I like that a little more than some people do. But just this is a very sporty-looking crossover.

It looks like kind of like a hot hatch that's larger and just slightly elevated a little bit more-- which is the whole idea of making these appealing to consumers who maybe are willing to trade a little bit of space for a little bit more spot, a little bit more style. So Joel kind of posits that he thinks the 3.5-liter V6 might be standard, just to kind of differentiate it from like some of the other Genesis crossovers, which could be cool. We'll see about that.

The concept had interesting seats, let's put it that way. Kind of I think they were [INAUDIBLE], but they were, I mean, really like race car seats, and they look great. You know, this is the second straight year that Genesis has revealed a really interesting concept at the New York Auto Show. They did the Genesis X last year, I believe.

And that's-- they're doing a good job, I think. They've sort of, I think, in a way, taken up the mantle from Infiniti as far as being like the import brand that just hangs its hat on design. And I think that's good. You know, I think that's frankly a missed opportunity, that Infiniti is starting to fade a little bit. And then, Genesis is right there.

And they're always going to win on value, too, unless they decide to really like rearrange their price structure. So it's-- they're compelling products. If you could get people to get into them and give them a shot, you know, it's they look great. They drive great. They're racking up all kinds of awards-- yeah.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, Genesis has really been killing it with their concepts as of late. Like the last three or four Auto Shows now, they've released a new one. They've had all their Genesis X concepts-- their coupe, their shooting brake, their convertible, and now this. They're definitely on a roll as far as concepts go.

This one's going to be built. And we're still TBD on those Genesis X concepts, which are probably the most stunning that they've made. But it's obvious that their designers are on a roll, and they know what they're doing. Just got to see these things come to production. now.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right. So those-- I would say those are like the big three, if you will. And then, the Kona was significant. It was more like, I would say, tweaks and refreshes. It's not like a full-on new generation.

But you know, they did some different-- you know, to me, the way I would sum it up is it's all grown up now. It's a little more refined as far as like the appearance. It looks a little Tesla-esque, if you will. I don't know if I want to go there. But it looks different than the outgoing Kona, which is a little more-- you know, it looks like a small crossover with some attitude.

This, this looks a little more futuristic. It almost looks like it's electric, even though like one version of the Kona is electric, and then there's like hybrid gas. It's sort of like the transitional car, to be honest. Like wherever you're at in the electric revolution, including not being part of it, Hyundai can help you with the Kona.

So it's interesting. And then, there was an Ioniq 6, Ioniq 5, that was Disney-themed. So Hyundai had a pretty good press conference too, I thought.

ZAC PALMER: They did, Yeah, no, the Kona was an interesting one. It wasn't like the full global reveal. We've already seen this thing before. This was the North American reveal of it here in New York.

And it's not a new platform, sort of like you were getting at there. It's the same platform, but Hyundai stretched it a good bit, which is probably the biggest news about this thing. Sure, there's the new design, the new interior, but the powertrain specs are almost completely carryover. There's almost no change there at all.

The big thing is that it's just so much bigger than before. The Kona was definitely like on the smaller side of subcompact crossovers previously. The back seat was cramped, the trunk was a little tiny. Hyundai expanded it a good bit now.

I hopped into the backseat of an N-line model and was just blown away by how much space there was back there now. I had set the front seat where it was comfortable for me, and I was nowhere close to even touching the back of that front seat, whereas in the previous Kona, I was like knees brushed against, head cramped-- just all around felt like a very small vehicle.

Now, this thing honestly feels more like a previous generation like Tucson, or just something an entire class above what it was before. So if you're thinking like, oh, a Kona is too small of a car for me, maybe this next generation might not be that too small of a car for you just because it's so much bigger now.

And Hyundai can do that because they still have the venue. Like there's the really, really small crossover that they offer if that's what you want. But the Kona is definitely not the little Mini Me that it was before.

GREG MIGLIORE: This reminds me a little bit of like what Honda did with the HR-V. You know, they took what was kind of a compact crossover, the bottom of the line, and then stretched it out a little bit sleek-- sleekened up the style, and you get something a bit different. So yeah, no, that's the Kona.

And there's still two gas-powered engines, too. I think it's interesting when you look at all the different ways automakers are approaching segments with how they're trying to fine-tune their powertrain lineups. You almost might think, in this segment, it's easier just to go with one.

But you got two choices here. If you only want to use gas, you can do that. So it's almost interesting to say that, you know, because you're so used to, like, well, hybrid-only. Or you know, they're going to-- this is it, then they're going to go all-electric. So--

ZAC PALMER: I was actually asking their product planner about that. Like all right, you're Hyundai. You guys have like a hybrid of every model. Like, there's so many hybrids. Why is there no hybrid Kona? They're like, well, we just really want to push people into the electric if they want something green. And then, the gasoline ones are more like a budget-conscious choice.

GREG MIGLIORE: That makes perfect sense, too.

ZAC PALMER: So you know, I mean, is there an argument for a hybrid? I think there is. Just I mean, literally, they have the narrow with that hybrid powertrain. Like they could probably be like, hey, Kia, can we use this in our Kona? Very similar-sized car and all.

But no, that's not the direction that they wanted to go with for the Kona. It's electric or gas. And the one gas engine, I think, is like slightly entertaining, too. It's--

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, yeah.

ZAC PALMER: You get the one. The 1.6 turbo with the eight-speed automatic, it's not entirely boring. There's a little something there for you.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, so let's move over to something that I think is just kind of a lot of fun. This is another thing we've-- another press conference that felt like a real Auto Show. Subaru, the wilderness variant of the Crosstrek. They had a legitimate press conference, if you will. They had the puppies that they-- Subaru is always a big supporter of pet adoptions, so they had the puppies that you could go and pet and adopt, I guess, if you wanted. They were very cute.

They also had their sort of national parks-themed stand. You know, it was-- again, talk about the car, but again, Subaru showed up. You know, I was looking at the Audi display, which, you know, Audi is based out of, I believe, Virginia. You know, it's not that far from New York. It looked like a dealer display with the house lights. It looked kind of sad. And then--

ZAC PALMER: It absolutely was a dealer display.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. [LAUGHS] So but then, you got Volkswagen that showed up like it's this is kind of a Detroit 2010. You know, it was a legit display. And again, wilderness Crosstrek, no surprise there. But kind of fun off-roader because the Crosstrek, I think, is the right sized vehicle. You can go through trails and stuff because it's not particularly big.

And they gave it the wilderness treatment, which is a little bit more capable. And Subaru says that apparently, plastic cladding is coming back. They're making it so. I saw a tweet where somebody said, remember when General Motors and Honda used to get like ruthlessly made fun of for doing this to their vehicles?

But I don't know. Times change, tastes change. I think the Crosstrek looks pretty good. And those tires look like they could just claw through like a bog. So yeah, you know, I think it's what we expected. There's nothing really groundbreaking here.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, I think the wilderness package being applied to the Crosstrek is honestly one of the most natural fits for that package. I think that a lot of enthusiasts have really taken to the Crosstrek as this little adventure vehicle. I see a lot of them modified online, honestly, with bigger tires, small lift, something like that. So Subaru doing that from the factory makes a whole lot of sense to me.

And the package, package is a good one. I think that they paired it with the 2-5, the bigger engine, which is definitely what it should be paired with. The look is a little plasticky for me. There's almost just as much plastic as there is paint on the car. To each their own.

But it certainly stands out in whatever parking lots or driveway you want to park it in. There's so many gold and yellow accents everywhere.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: The blue paint really, really pops. Subaru did not phone it in on the exterior look or the capability of this wilderness car at all. It's a legit, you know, little mini off-roader, and it's pretty cool. And one little tidbit that I thought was really interesting is that this thing has better towing than the other Crosstrek.

And it's got a 3,500-pound towing capacity, which to me is just like, wow. For that small of a crossover, like I expect something more like 1,000, 2,000 pounds. But no, 3,500, and you can tow a tiny little camper, maybe, on your way up, and unhitch, and go off-roading. So sweet little package.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, now moving over to the Jeep Wrangler, which I know people are going to get excited about. Subtle changes, but significant. I would almost put this in the same kind of boat as, like, the Hyundai Kona where it's like, it's not mind-blowing changes, but they're important. To me, they're in direct response to the Bronco.

Competition is good, and Ford is-- or Jeep is responding to Ford by making the Wrangler better. I mean, you know, for years, when Wrangler had the segment to itself, they could just be like, here's the new generation. We'll see you in eight or nine years for the next one, you know? Now it's like, OK, you've got to do a legit mid-cycle refresh here if you want to stay competitive. And they did that, you know?

It was, again, it was another legitimate press conference. They showed up. And again, it felt like a real reveal, even though, again, it's a mid-cycle refresh. So that's good.

A couple of the headliner things, like literally from the headlines. It's the 4 by E, there is a cheaper version of it, which I think is good. The 4 by E is not inexpensive, let's put it that way. Yeah, and the EcoDiesel-- that's the six-cylinder-- is gone, which I don't really know what the take rate was on that.

I personally liked it. I remember I had a very memorable Thanksgiving in it in 2019, driving all around. But maybe that's just there isn't-- that's not where people are going right now. So some slight design changes, interior stuff. But you know, if you're looking to get into a Jeep in 2024, it's a little bit better for you.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, no, there are some small things. Like you said, I think it's all because of the Bronco. Jeep is over here improving, trying to outmatch them.

One highlight for me in this thing is the new Uconnect infotainment system. It's got this really nice big widescreen display now, which is a huge upgrade over the previous Uconnect system. It looks really classy on the dash. I think they integrated it nicely. So huge, huge tech upgrade.

And then, one other small thing. They added power seats. The Wrangler didn't have power seats before.

GREG MIGLIORE: I don't think I knew that. That's interesting.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, it's like just this weird little thing that, all right, the Jeep Wrangler, you could go buy like a $75,000 Wrangler and it still had manual seats. But now you can option these 12-way power seats in a Wrangler. Bronco offered it, now the Wrangler does too.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's interesting. I did not realize that you couldn't get that. That's really interesting.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: I like that because when you drive a Bronco, you know, depending on the-- or drive a Wrangler, depending on the circumstances, sometimes you've got to move around, adjust, and it can be a bit old school, I guess is one way to put it, to move the seats around. So yeah, I think that's a good move.