BMW M5 and Aston Martin Valiant lead big reveal week | Autoblog Podcast #838

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by News Editor Joel Stocksdale. They cover a big week of news and reveals including the BMW M5, Aston Martin Valiant and VW Jetta. They also talk about VW's investment in Rivian, some never-before-seen GM concepts, and the future of $25,000 electric cars. As for cars the two editors have been driving, they discuss the Porsche Cayenne GTS, Chevy Suburban, Toyota Land Cruiser 1958, and touch on the Lamborghini Huracán Sterrato one more time. The podcast wraps up with Migliore and Stocksdale advising a listener on green pickup trucks in the "Spend My Money" segment.

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

Video Transcript

Welcome back to the auto blog podcast.

I'm Greg Migliori.

We have an awesome show for you this week.

It's jam packed with a lot of news, including the new BMW M five, something called the Aston Martin Valiant.

It's not a Plymouth.

Stay with us.

We'll explain.

Rivian and Volkswagen are doing a tie up.

We'll talk about some other things that have been going on this week as well.

It's been a busy week in the car world.

Uh So it's a good time to bring in our news editor Joel Stockdale.

What's up, man?

Hey, not too much.

All right, a lot going on here.

Uh These long summer nights here, uh uh lots of stuff, lots of time to drive, some cool things and things.

I've been driving include the new Chevy suburban which was refreshed for 2025.

Uh Joel spent some time in the Porsche Cayenne, uh the GTs version, which is pretty cool and he's also been in the land cruiser 1958 and uh he spent uh I believe a day or two in the Lamborghini Rican Strato, which we talked about last week.

But, hey, it was a pretty cool car.

So we'll get Joel's take on that.

We will spend your money.

It's a good one.

All right.

So with that, uh basically the first full week of sub, let's kick things off with a new BMW M five lots of horsepower 717.

That's, uh, it's like hellcat territory, basically, right.

Uh Kind of a funky new design, uh which I think, uh, I don't know BMW S, it's hard for me to even comment on the design because I feel like they do start to look pretty different in person.

Uh It's also a plug in hybrid.

There we go.

That's a bit too odd pack.

Uh But hey, the 911 was going hybrid as well, which we talked about a few weeks ago and we had that story up.

So, um definitely a different, I think world here for some of our very familiar performance cars.

What do you think of the new M five Joel?

Yeah, I mean, I actually kind of like the way it looks and um surprisingly, it seemed like a few of us on staff kind of dig it.

I the front grill looks a little funny.

Uh I've got this thing.

BMW has done some odd stuff trying to hide their forward kind of collision sensors and stuff and it always looks a little bit weird, but overall it looks all right.

Uh I do appreciate that.

It actually seems to have some legitimate electric range it's at this point, not amazing, but it is a performance car.

It's got an estimated 25 miles of electric range which, you know, that'll actually take you somewhere.

Uh There've been a couple of high performance plug in hybrids from other automakers that have like no range.

Uh The one that I'm thinking of particularly the Mercedes Am GGT 63 se performance V eight, which um that mouthful only has seven miles of range despite being a plug in hybrid, which feels very much kind of trying to meet some sort of compliance requirement in uh in Europe.

Um But, but a lot has been been made about the M five being quite heavy.

Now, the F five has never been particularly light, I think in modern times.

But when you add some, you know, plug in hybrid hybrid running gear, it's definitely gonna make it heavier.

Uh which I, I will say this with the M five, I'm willing to accept a little bit of extra ballast because it's just a big car.

It's a, it's a super sedan, I think with the M three, that's where I get a little more like that's not what I want for the M three.

So I'm willing to accept that, I think a bit with the M five.

but this is 1000 over the last one.

It's a lot, they're gonna have a tough time selling that I think to the hardcore enthusiasts and purists uh, would you read that fine print?

Yeah.

And I mean, BMW can make something really heavy work surprisingly well.

The BMW XM is a good example of that because that's a huge SUV with a lot of power and being a plug in hybrid, but it drives surprisingly well.

It's got big beatty tires, uh, six piston, uh, front calipers, uh, in the front, uh, similar, uh, suspension set up from the regular five series.

And it also has this thing called boost control, uh, which, uh, you could only do between 2090 miles an hour.

Uh, you basically grab one of the paddle shifters and hold on for dear life.

So these boost modes, these like sort of fancy, like, you know, acceleration tip in things, launch controls, you know, that's really becoming all the rage, uh, for performance vehicles, you know, especially evs but plug in hybrids as well.

And, uh, yeah, that should add some zines to this, uh, this pretty, uh, big car.

Yeah, those boots, they, they're interesting.

I, I don't know how I feel about them completely because I guess it seems like less of sort of like a boost button and more of like a drive mode, like a temporary drive mode button in all of these app because, because when I think of a boost button, like what I'm imagining is sort of like a fast and the Furious, like I press the button and the second I hit it, the car starts accelerating even harder than it was before.

But none of them seem to kind of work that way.

It's more because even this, because even, uh in our story, we talk about like the way this boost mode works is that you have to hold down the left shift paddle for more than a second.

And then it kind of like then you have access to the extra power, um, when you floor it.

I don't know.

But I guess, I guess none of them quite work the way I would like them to.

It's probably for safety and legal reasons because, you know, you don't want somebody just accidentally pressing a button and the car suddenly accelerating a lot harder than, than it was initially.

I don't know.

I've got, I've got weird mixed feelings about it.

I mean, all the different whether it's boost mode or like, uh the watts to freedom, wide open watts on the Chevy EVs.

Uh they're all like, they're different flavors, they're different slightly.

I mean, like setups for their mission.

But I mean, part of me is also like, you kind of wonder how safety isn't an issue.

I maybe it is.

I don't know, but it also just seems like why I remember driving an ad TT Rs uh in Europe and they were all excited about this launch control thing, which was amazing.

You know, you just pushed a couple buttons that, you know, jumped on the throttle, let go, the brakes the way you went.

And we're all kind of like, so, when can you use this?

So, they're like, well here on this racetrack, this former formula one racetrack and I think it was Portugal.

So, I don't know.

They, they party tricks is what they are, I think.

Um, it is though.

I mean, it's a serious, it's a torque monster.

Uh, you get a lot of that, Uh you get uh 0 63.4 seconds.

That's pretty quick.

Uh You can get a lot of the traditional M goodies like the drivers package um in the top torque uh 1800 R PM is when it comes on and that all you could do that all the way to 5400.

So it's a very torque beast.

This is the 4.4 L uh V eight if you're curious.

Uh So, you know, I, I'm excited to drive this, this is a, you know, a twin turbo V eight M five.

I, I am excited.

Uh I think it looking at more of the pictures again.

It's a little tough to tell because it's a green car that we're seeing in most of these pictures.

It's almost sedate is not the right word, but it's pretty chill compared to what BMW has been doing with some of their crazy designs, with the huge grills, the crazy angles, uh things like that like the M two come to mind and M four.

but hey, so I kind of like the restrained look.

It reminds me a little bit and this is not a dis of the New Honda Accord, just smooth, clean, um even proportions, not trying to do too much.

So, yeah, I mean, I think the best thing to do here is check out the story written by Byron Herd that's on our website.

You can see these pictures dig into the story.

We've basically probably read his story front to back for you to get in there, check it out, get into the comments.

We would love to hear what you think of a new M five and we have the Plymouth, excuse me, the Aston Martin Valiant.

This uh came out yesterday.

It's a limited edition uh pretty wild looking thing.

You wrote the story, Joel, why don't you kind of take us through it?

Yeah.

So the Aston Martin Valiant is basically a s a faster, more exclusive special edition of an already fast and exclusive special Aston Martin model.

And uh this one is sort of, I guess you could maybe say curated by F one champion.

Um and current F one driver Fernando Alonso.

Um the valiant.

It's based on the valor, uh which is one of many V named vehicles um including the Aston Martin Victor, which was a one off and the Aston Martin Vantage, which is a more serious production vehicle.

And that's, I mean, that's why you've got something called valiant because at some point you're gonna start running out of exciting words that start with V. So we've got the Aston valiant for now.

And uh basically what has changed is they added 30 horsepower to this over the regular valor.

They also gave it a bunch of really aggressive carbon fiber body work.

It's got a big rear wing and it's got big side skirts and a front splitter and diffuser.

All of these carbon fiber arrow things.

It's got smooth carbon fiber arrow covers over magnesium wheels and kind of the big showpiece.

Then inside is that like the valor?

It has a actual six speed manual transmission and then the valiant, the center consoles cut away so that you can see all of the shifter linkages and components.

I think it's uh I think it's, that's a, you know, very nuanced technical take on some of the things it could do.

Uh It strikes me just, I maybe I'm hung up too much on the word valiant.

Uh reminds me of wood Ford was trying to make all their cars start with f or sometimes e little little unnecessary.

I think we all obviously think of the Plymouth valiant, which I know is kind of cheesy.

But so it goes, uh pictures of this thing are wild though.

Uh I mean just there, there is no rear windshield, you look at the rear kind of like that raked uh roof line that goes right into the spoiler head and tail lights are wild.

Uh, maybe we should let Fernando Alonso drive some more or design some more cars.

Seems like he did a pretty good job with this one.

Yeah, it's, it's striking.

I, I think I may actually prefer the valor slightly more.

The rear wing might be a little bit much for me, which feels a little bit odd for me to say that because I do tend to like kind of ridiculous cars.

But I think in this case the wings just maybe a little bit much, but either way it does, it does look nice.

Uh, the gold color, uh seems to be pretty fitting for it even though I, I can't really think of much that I would associate gold with the Aston Martin with.

I mean, I guess the, I guess there was Goldfinger, the James Bond movie, Golden Eye.

Um, oh, the other kind of big feature on the giant is that it gets upgraded with multi Matic spool valve shocks because they go in everything that has amazing suspension, whether it's a four GT or even a Chevy Colorado ZR two.

I think I actually like the valiant more than the valor.

Um, you know, if I were spending my money, I would maybe go with the valiant.

I don't know, they both look pretty sick and that the, uh, the gear shifter that you mentioned, you laid that out really well, that is just so cool.

I think as we get more into like everything, digital, everything a I, some of these like, true even exposed sort of mechanical elements where you can, you know, men and machines see what, like how your car is working or just a little closer to the actual, um, you know, analog nature of it is cool.

Uh, you know, you see this sometimes with skeleton watches, um, the recent Bugatti, uh that interior that we saw was very old school, like almost like 100 years ago, old school.

It looked like, you know, the dawn of the auto industry.

So I would like to see more of that.

To be honest, I don't think um screens are great.

We'll talk about them like in the suburban, they can be great and you don't want to look dated.

But I think there's a time and a place and maybe that can be a way we differentiate some of these other like trim levels.

You know, you get one that's a little more, a little more basic, a little more mechanical.

So this is cool.

You gotta check it out.

Nice job on the story there, Joel, let's talk about this tie up between Rivian and Volkswagen News came down yesterday.

We reported this on Tuesday evening.

We're recording the show on Wednesday morning and uh basically Volkswagen is going to invest $5 billion into Rivian and then they will set up this joint venture where they will share development and you know, kind of walk hand in hand to the EV future.

Uh In simple terms, this helps Volkswagen get some access to electric vehicle technology and software development and platforms and a lot of the secret sauce that Rivian uh has.

And for many times, I would say in the last probably decade, investors, enthusiasts like Rivian has been, I think second only to Tesla as far as the EV maker, that's most in the news, most generating buzz.

Amazon invested in them, Ford invested in them.

I think Amazon still is invested in them, but Volkswagen may have more of an equity stake after this.

Um But they had a really rough first quarter, like a really bad first quarter.

Uh You can check up the story as far as just how much money uh they lost and things didn't go well.

Um So they, they needed some cash and I think this gives them money and time to sort out their strategy until this new portfolio of vehicles like the R two comes to market because right now they have two very good vehicles, the R one S and the R one T uh but they're fairly expensive.

I think a few years ago when they launched, they seemed more expensive relative to the field now with inflation and car prices going up and just what these things are, they're very substantial borderline luxury vehicles like people are willing to pay the money for that if they, you know, could get them.

And also they just uh launched a refreshed versions of both the R one S and the R one T. So all that is to say is they need some time and they need some money and Volkswagen is gonna give it to them.

What's interesting now is Volkswagen, you know, gets to kind of go behind the curtain and, you know, get access to some of Rivian stuff, which is a big boost for Volkswagen.

They have the money.

Volkswagen has plenty of money, cash on hand.

So I think it's a good move for Volkswagen, for Rivian.

I also think it's a good new, good move, but I also think it's always tough when you're letting somebody who's like bigger than you have control over, like sort of what makes you special.

So that's always a slippery slope.

But Tesla did it for a while with Mercedes and other companies and it helped them stay afloat.

So uh I think this is a win, win as we try to break this down.

Uh but we shall see, what do you think of this?

What do you make of this?

Yeah, it's interesting.

And I think the biggest thing, honestly, Rivian probably at least short term gets the most out of this because they get the money and being a start up in the car industry is very, very expensive, being an established player in the car industry is very expensive but not as expensive as getting into it.

Uh So, I mean, Rivian needs all the money they can get, especially since they are trying to expand and build out their lineup.

They've got the smaller R two line um coming up soon.

And even beyond that, the R three hatchback uh which has been previewed.

So, you know, anything that can get uh cash wise will be very helpful and it seems that VW in particular is going to be getting software assistance um from Rivian, which I think it's going to be very, very good for Volkswagen because, you know, we've experienced some of their infotainment systems and things and they're not great.

Um even their kind of improved ones, uh you know, are still kind of lagging behind some of the better systems in the industry.

So I think they, I think both can benefit.

Rivian is probably benefiting the most up front.

Um But there's potential for both companies to benefit kind of in the future if they decide to expand their collaboration more.

So, I mean, in the event that Rivian is able to sort of use V some VW components and things here and there that can save them a lot of money in development and production for making more affordable vehicles or, and or more profitable.

Um And I'm sure VW would not mind getting a little bit of ev expertise from ravine in some aspects that's not to say that VW is necessarily struggling in that department.

But because I mean, they're from like kind of the entry level ID stuff, which is pretty decent overall and then kind of their high performance stuff, which is quite impressive.

Uh But there's can always be room to improve.

What will be interesting is as Volkswagen starts to roll out their scout line to see kind of how that plays into things because it feels a little bit like the scout brand will be almost kind of like a direct competitor to Rivian in the future.

Um And maybe that can lead to some kind of components and platform sharing in the future since they'd be kind of similar vehicles.

But at the same time, possibly some internal competition, it's interesting.

But I think like at least short term, both companies are gonna benefit.

Yeah, it, it's, there's a ton of questions here and like I said, it's always confusing to me.

I think when you sort of not merge but really tie up with a competitor like this because it's sort of like, ultimately, don't you wanna kind of beat the competitor and be ahead of them, not team up with them?

But I guess it's, it's an interesting business philosophy.

I think you also are in the situation too where the Scout Rivian thing is very much unanswered.

We did uh Byron Hurd, our associate editor, uh got a no comment from Scout.

So uh if you read our story, we have that I don't think everybody else has that quite layer in their story.

So um Scout is definitely an interesting uh element to this.

But on the other hand is, you know, they've been billed as being independent.

So theoretically, it's sort of like a hand's length, arms length relationship.

Although there was supposed to be like a little bit of platform, not platform, excuse me.

Um some sort of sharing commonalities with the broader Volkswagen group when appropriate.

So we don't know what that means.

We also know Volkswagen has a lot of electric vehicles.

It's, it's just, it's interesting to me that they would kind of have scout over here doing their own thing, but then they're gonna team up with Rivian and also they have the ID four, they have the ID three, they're gonna roll out the bus like, you know, it's, I, I assume they think this will just accelerate their ev efforts for the Volkswagen proper group because, you know, on one hand, it seems like they already have the tech.

Uh I guess they just, it's not the biggest ringing endorsement of your existing tech if you look at it that way too, if you've got to go out and team up with this relatively new company.

So, um all that to say, I, I don't see a downside for Volkswagen.

I think all the details in here affect the smaller parties.

Whereas for Volkswagen, you write the check, you get the stuff.

I mean, to me take the deal for Volkswagen, it's a slam dunk.

Uh People seem to like it for Rivian, at least on the street, their stock went up 40% this morning.

And I think that, um that's indicative of the fact that there's just so many, there's so much uncertainty around EV companies and I think investors are always worried they're gonna run out of money.

Whereas like as enthusiasts, we're just like, oh man, look at this cool new thing they're doing.

Uh So this sort of kind of solves uh some of those problems, money can be a problem.

All righty.

So let's run through a couple of interesting concepts we saw this week.

They're from like almost 20 years ago.

There's a Cadillac concept that kind of previewed uh much of the design that we're seeing right now and Cadillacs on the road as well as the Pontiac, the original Pontiac G eight concept uh GM does has an awesome Instagram account.

You should probably follow it.

Uh We have no connection with them obviously, but just a plug.

It's really cool thing to follow.

And this gives you kind of uh uh insight into how, you know what they were thinking 20 years ago, as well as you know, just some of the cool stuff they could do.

The Cadillac design I think is interesting.

It was rolled out at the Aon Design Car Show uh in Grosse Pointe a couple of weeks ago here uh in Metro Detroit.

And it's a design car show.

It's a really good show.

I've only been a couple times um but it really focuses on design.

So the GM design team was like, hey, we have this awesome concept, never really shown it in person.

We've kind of sort of talked about it.

Let's rule it out.

What are we waiting for?

And, you know, if you look at it, you can really see a lot of the elements, uh especially in the grill, they've shown up in modern Cadillacs.

I think it's, I think that one looks slick.

I know you wrote the story, you know.

Do you like this?

Cadillac?

Yeah, Cadillac seems to nail like almost every single concept car they ever do.

The frustrating thing is that so many of their concepts never really reach reality.

I mean, you'll see elements of each of their concepts, but they had a lot of spectacular cars that just have never made it to production.

The Celestic is really kind of the first one.

which I'm glad the Celestic is cool.

I, but I can rattle off names of other like Cadillac concepts from the past, like El Mirage and Cl and CN and like there's, they've had a bunch of them.

This is another one that's really pretty and the even more shocking is the fact that this one was fully an internal concept.

It was not shown until like this past weekend.

Um, and it was built like a number of years ago.

It's interesting too, like if you look at the front end, the grill, the lights, the proportions.

I mean, that is the CT four and CT five.

Basically the after they got past that sort of 2000 tens generation of the Cadillac sedans that were very razor sharp, razor edged in every way you can shave with them.

Uh Recently, I think they've gone back to a little more understated design and this concept shows like where they were going.

It's a little over the top compared to the what's on the road, but not much.

So I think it looks great and I really like the current generation of Cadillac sedans.

I think they, they hit that right balance between being, um, you know, prestigious, premium looking luxury, their Cadillacs, but also pretty good looking sporty athletic looking cars so you can see where it all started and then where it all started and ended for Pontiac was this G eight concept which I don't like this as much, but it's really, it's just a random, interesting trivia question.

Uh The G eight ended up not looking a whole hell of a lot like this.

This kind of looks like a big solstice, I guess would be the way I would put it.

Um It's very much an early two thousands concept car.

Uh You know, it reminds me a little bit of the original Chevy Volt concept as far as just, you know, like the materials and the, you know, the closer up you get to it, the faker it looks.

Um, but this has been around since 08.

I don't know, they ended up making the G eight.

It was based on the uh the Australian Division, Holden's, you know, underpinnings.

So they didn't really stray too far from that.

I forget the car was the Commodore.

Is that what it was based on?

Um Yeah, so the, the production G eight actually launched like basically the year before um this concept was kind of finished.

This concept was from 2008.

Well, or like the same year as when the, when the production G A launched and the production G eight was based on the Holden Commodore.

Yeah.

Um And yeah, this thing is a big departure from because the production car was just genuinely a rebanded, hold him like they put the Pontiac Kidneys on it and that was about it.

This thing, I, I definitely agree there is, it's kind, it does kind of look like a blown up version of the original Chevy Volt concept, the way the kind of window sill line sort of dips down a little bit.

Um And it's got a long nose, it's got the hatchback rear and kind of a short rear and I, and yeah, it definitely has sort of like solstice sky inspiration.

Uh particularly in the rear of it.

Um, kind of the shape of the tail lights and stuff and like, it's got vertical headlights and like the grill is like way low down in the front.

It's a striking car and it is very two thousands to your point.

And you said it better than I did.

I was kind of mixing up the timeline.

Like this is sort of like maybe what they could have done next had GM truly designed the G eight and Pontiac had survived which it obviously did not.

Um I like the G eight.

I drove it.

Um I drove the V six and the V eight versions.

I thought it was a for what it was, which was a rebadged Australian car.

It was pretty damn good.

I had fun with it.

I really, um I thought they got it right.

I think they, you know, Pontiac sort of their mission was to reply to the Dodge Charger at that point.

And, you know, the resources at GM were dwindling by the minute in that time period, in the run up to bankruptcy.

So they did what they could and it was a very good car, I thought, I mean, relatively speaking, uh but it was, it was fun, you know, it, I thought it looked pretty good.

I remember automobile uh magazine.

Some, speaking of something that's no longer around did a comparison with uh BMW S and Audis and they liked it too.

So, um, not a bad used car and, and it is interesting to see this because it was literally the year after in 2009, the Pontiac was officially shut down.

So it's just interesting to kind of see this and to sort of see like where Pontiac might have gone.

And I mean, even like the G eight did technically get a successor in the Chevy Ss, but that was still just a rebadged version of the Holden.

Whereas like this concept seems to suggest potentially doing something significantly more kind of changed and modified for Pontiac specifically as opposed to just a bench.

J Yeah, it's just, it's interesting stuff.

Yeah.

It, uh, you know, as I look at the pictures, I actually prefer the car that was a little closer to the Holden than this concept.

I think it's just cleaner, more almost European.

Uh, I liked it.

Uh, and I, I drove the big V eight too back in the day.

It was, it was a beast, you know, it was not a particularly heavy car.

Uh, if I'm remembering right, there was a six speed manual.

So it was, it was that like, you know, kind of nay six speed manual from 15 years ago.

But, um, yeah, I don't know, I, I wouldn't mind getting another spin in a G eight, maybe G MS, got one in the heritage collection somewhere.

But, uh, let's go to the present and talk about the New Jet, you wrote this story.

Uh This is the new Jet.

I think it's a pretty important car for Volkswagen, obviously, uh manual drops away a little bit but you can still get it in the GL I which I think is ok because if you want a manual transmission, you probably would veer towards that uh version.

Anyway.

So you are the news editor and you wrote the story.

Why don't let you ramble on about it?

Yeah, so the new Jetta is to be honest, despite the new front Fascia and interior tweaks, it's pretty much the same Jetta as before.

I think the new styling looks quite nice to be honest.

Uh Actually an improvement over the old one, it's just much cleaner and simpler, um kind of more like what you would expect of sort of kind of Volkswagen maybe 10 to 20 years ago.

And I say that in a good way.

Um Not, not to say that it's, it's not dated, but it just has kind of a cleaner look than sort of the last few years of Jetta.

Um, the new sort of trim along the front bumper, I think looks particularly nice on the GL I where it's bright red and, you know, beyond that, it really has not changed much.

It's got a bigger infotainment screen which runs a newer version of Volkswagen's Infotainment, which as we touched on a little bit with the Rivian NVW stuff, it's definitely a big improvement over what they had been putting in their VW then into the VW line, particularly the ID cars.

But, you know, it's still not amazing.

Uh, power trains are basically the same.

I'm definitely disappointed that they're dropping the manual from the regular Jetta because a number of us have driven that version of the Jetta and it is, it's kind of a secret bargain for like an enthusiast because you got a turbo engine which had good torque and felt punchy and like a half decent manual transmission.

That meant that you could use the most of it all for less than $25,000.

Um That also got great fuel economy and was in a comfortable roomy car.

So it's kind of sad that that's gone.

Uh You can still get it within eight speed automatic and thankfully, the GL I is still around and the GL I can still be had with a manual transmission, which is not something that you can say for kind of the golf GT I and Golf R which are going to dual clutch transmission only.

Yeah, and the GL I is also surprisingly cheap at the moment.

They haven't announced pricing for the new one, but we're expecting it should still be pretty affordable, which would mean that you can get the GL I for uh potentially less than even like a civic si.

Um We'll have to see when the full pricing comes out.

I kind of wonder if there will be a, at any point to pivot back to sedans just for daily driving, like small family second cars and like maybe the family cars, the large crossover that every American seems to have to have, but just something else because I drove the Camry last week and it was outstanding.

You know, I put my whole family in there dog, everybody, everybody fits.

Uh The Jetta is obviously a different class, but it's still a very good value.

It's fuel efficient.

Uh You get that kind of Volkswagen, um uh just vibe about it, you know, quirky, cheeky, that kind of thing.

I know several Jetta owners who still are driving very old Jetta.

It's like they have that existing base.

So I think the companies that stick with them like Toyota Honda Volkswagen, Hyundai, I think there's some room to run and this new one, I think uh it's not a dramatic change, but I think a smart move by Volkswagen to kind of stay with it.

Stay the course and try to pick up some sales.

Well, I think I'm not entirely sure sedans are gonna come back around, but I think genuinely what is going to be a key thing is ma is affordability.

Um And Volkswagen even noted that the Jetta sales have gone up a lot in the last year.

Um They compared with year to date sales for last year, Jetta sales have been up have been more than double this year.

And they said that like a big part of that is that financing has gotten expensive.

So people are moving down to more affordable vehicles and the Jetta is one of them.

Uh And what we didn't talk about is while full pricing is not available, the base model Jetta pricing is and the com since the manual is no longer available, comparing automatic to automatic, the new one is actually a couple 100 bucks cheaper than last year's model.

And I think that that's gonna be, I think a big deal for buyers in the next couple of years and like, if you, if you can keep your prices down and still have like a competent product, you're gonna sell a lot of them.

I think that's what VW is seeing right now.

23 295 is a very aggressive price point.

I mean, even for like, we know the Jetta has never been super expensive, relatively speaking, but, I mean, that's almost like Hyundai territory as far as coming in with a really aggressive, a well equipped product.

So, uh, you know, I'm interested to drive this thing.

I, uh, it's been a minute since I've been in a Jetta and, um, I, I think the GL I would be the flavor I would like, I do like the Volkswagen.

Uh, it's the dual clutch, right.

I do like those as well.

But, um, the manual Volkswagen does good manuals, in my opinion.

So.

All right.

Speaking of price, the ever elusive $25,000 ev, everybody seems to want to make one or not make one in the case of Tesla.

Uh, but they still might be working on one.

We don't really know the model two.

You were in New York a few weeks ago, the Renegade apparently is gonna be reborn as an EV, for about that much.

We're to get the bolt coming back.

Uh in fairly short order.

Ford doesn't seem to know what they're doing, at least publicly facing.

And you know, the rest of the industry is somewhere in between.

So I think what's uh critical to pull out here is this is something that uh would probably bring EVs to many more buyers.

And I think when you kind of look at the field of, you know, what would get somebody to buy an EV it's like, well charging range, anxiety and price and this would solve it for many people.

Um So, and I, I will say this, I think the Renegade could be uh that could be an interesting option for a lot of people because I like the old Renegade.

The ice one I think is an EV.

And as a Jeep, I think you're starting to tick a lot of boxes here that could get people interested.

So, you know, more about this car than I do because you wrote the original story on it.

You were among the first um, I think it, at some point we've got to see a $25,000 ev, much like this jet is, you know, for sedan buyers, it's gotta be available for, uh, more people.

So, I mean, what do you think about this?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely gonna happen and I don't think it's gonna take too long to get there.

Um, the Chevy Bolt, the last one was pretty much there.

Um Like it was just a couple thou uh it was just like a few $1000 more than 25 K and that was like, MS RP, that wasn't even including uh tax credits and stuff.

So I, I think we're very close and I think Chevy might be able to beat ST anti to it and I only say that because with the Renegade, it seemed like they were kind of hinting towards closer to like 2027 as launching that since it's gonna be ba yeah, none of there haven't been any Renegade variants kind of introduced yet and it's going to be based on presumably a Stan platform that has not been introduced to the US yet.

It's the, we're expecting it to be the ST anti smart car uh platform which they're using for a couple of small evs in Europe.

Uh One of them being Citroen C three.

Uh So it should be fairly small and it's probably still being kind of sorted out the US spec version of it uh expecting it to use uh lithium iron phosphate battery chemistry, which is cheaper to make it's very long lasting a little bit temperature sensitive more so than uh the currently more common nickel manganese cobalt chemistry.

Um And the other thing is is that it sounds like Jeep is going to need tax credit, tax credits to get to that like $25,000 ish price point.

So that might not even be $25,000 MS RP.

That may be after incentives.

Um And to get those incentives, they're going to have to have production in the US.

So and so there's a good chance that Jeep needs to set up some production facilities in the next year or so to handle components for Electric Renegade.

And all of those reasons are why I kind of think Chevy is more likely to have its next generation bolt out before.

Uh We see the Renegade granted, we don't really have many details about the next bolt, but we also know that Chevy built the first gen bolt for a while here.

It's mostly working out the kinks with its altium platform.

Um and some aspect of altium we believe is going to be utilized in the new bolt.

So I'm I'm expecting Chevy to kind of get there first.

We also haven't seen pricing yet for the Kia Ev three, which is another strong contender for being like a very cheap EV in the US market.

Um since that is very much going to be marketed as kind of like the entry point for Kia Electric, even below Kia Nero.

So that should be pretty darn affordable.

Um We'll see if it's as cheap or cheaper than like equinox EV.

Um and you mentioned Ford and they do seem to be a bit of an an enigma at the moment like I, yeah, it we just haven't, it feels like we haven't really heard a lot about kind of like their upcoming electrification plans.

Like Mackey and Lightning came out and it's been quiet since.

Yeah, we, they kind of, they did, they took some really big cuts a few years ago and it seems like we haven't seen much since to your point, you know, Macky lightning, enormous tent pole pillar vehicles.

Jim Farley took the dramatic step of trying to like essentially divide the company into like, uh Ice and EV and commercial.

Uh, so they really talked a big game but the follow up hasn't been there and honestly reading between the lines, it feels like they've been kind of backtracking a little bit.

They're talking a lot about hybrids these days plug in hybrids.

Like, honestly, they sound a little bit more like Toyota than they did a few years ago.

Whereas General Motors, Mary Barra have been very, um, you know, they haven't let up.

They just been like, no, we're doing evs, of course, we're to do some still V eights, you know, other vehicles, Corvettes and things like that.

But, um, this is, you know, they've taken a different path.

Uh, I'll be curious to see what Ford does because sometimes these things fly below the radar and then all of a sudden it'll be like, hey, here's the new Ford Escort, it'll be $26,000 and, you know, it'll just be there.

So, uh, I guess we shall see.

Um, I tend to think pricing right now with evs, it reminds me a lot of fuel economy a few years ago, like, and by a few, I mean, like 1015 car companies were like, we can't do this.

It's impossible.

You know, the Ford Fiesta got like 29 miles to the, uh, MPG and they're like, this is the best we could do.

You've got to drive these econo boxes and then lo and behold, like the Camry, I just drove, got 45 MPG.

So it's, I think it'll be a problem and then it will happen.

Yeah.

Well, MGM has also said that they are gonna be refocusing a little bit to offer some more hybrids.

And I think what I think is funny is that whereas a lot of people had kind of felt like stances was lagging.

I kind of think they actually may have sort of the sweet strategy for kind of short to medium term by sort of, by making their platforms capable of doing both and so they can kind of adjust here and there, like how many evs versus hybrids that they do and kind of adjust to their supply to meet demand.

All right, sounds good.

So, check out the story, we've got a kind of a recap of where everybody stands.

That's on our site right now.

I can read Jewel's story about what the New Renegade will entail.

Uh, but let's move along and talk about the Porsche Cayenne, which you drove.

Uh We tell everybody what you drove.

It was the GTs to tell us about this crossover.

Yeah, so it is um yet another very carefully positioned slice of uh portion this like, yeah, Porsche is an expert at carving out the thinnest little niches and crossfitter lineups.

Um The GTs is kind of one of them and it offers, it offers a bunch of equipment that you can get on Cayenne S. Um But if you add all of that equipment to KNS, it would end up being more expensive than the base GTs and then the base GTs uh in addition to including all those features, it also gets more power and gets a couple of additional features on top of that.

Uh So it's this weird thing where like this sort of higher end Cayenne trim level is also like a good bar is in a little bit of a way a bargain.

It's, it's kind of weird.

Um But yeah, it makes uh 493 horsepower and 486 feet of torque.

Which, so you get, it's, it's an improvement over the regular s, you also get torque vectoring, you get active air suspension and, you know, it's a very good SUV, the Cayenne in general, it's a very good SUV.

And the GTs is just sort of about the sportiest one.

You can get short of the Turbo E hybrid.

And, you know, it's, it's a Porsche is just, it's, it's very good.

The steering is very precise, impressively communicative.

It rides surprisingly well.

The V eight is really responsive and it's, it's interesting because Porsche has been moving a lot of its V eights to, instead of having twin scroll turbos, which are known for being super responsive to more conventional single scroll turbos.

And that's as a, that's a result of having to meet different emissions requirements and it works better with kind of the exhaust system, but they've done other things to kind of make up for that.

They've added variable valve timing and lift, um kind of like V tech in a Honda or VVT, I in a Toyota or my Vec and a Mitsubishi.

Um and genuinely like it feels as responsive as ever.

It's, it's a great engine uh with a great transmission.

It's, there just isn't really, there's not really anything bad to say about it.

It's just a really good SUV, I gotta give Porsche credit for the way they set up their engine lineups, they always give you just enough powerful power that you can have a great time and the, their engines always sound great.

That's testament to the engines on the exhaust, of course, uh but they don't overkill.

You know, you look at like, say Dodges approach to marketing through horsepower and Porsche is like, this is what you need.

It's gonna be great.

You're gonna have a great time and it's uh really well tailored for each vehicle and to your point, you know, regardless of the trim level cayennes, I think have the best steering of any crossover.

It's just you get like a Porsche, you know, set up in that.

Um So I would, I mean, in addition to these, you know, very compelling new versions, if you're an enthusiast and you've, you're looking for like a used crossover, maybe you wanna try and let somebody else take that depreciation hit.

That could be a fun way to get into a Porsche, you know, like a cayenne and use it as a daily driver and then drive it for a while.

So that's, that's something I tell people when they're like, well, I'm looking to get a, some sort of a crossover and I want, but I also want something fun and that usually is sort of like, people don't know what they want, you know, it's, if you want something fun, you want a Miata, but you also need a three row crossover like there's, there's too much distance going on here.

Uh But, you know, used Cayenne could really fit your, fit your mission in life.

So, uh let's transition to another uh SUV, this is the 2025 Chevy suburban.

Uh this uh excuse me, 2024 Chevy suburban, the new one, the 2025 gets a fair amount of upgrades and things like that.

Uh Basically it's a slightly different looking.

Uh they kind of thinned out the led headlights and made the interior a bit different and tweaked the suspension.

All that is to say, I drove the 2024 high country, uh still very nice vehicle.

Uh It's, um, you know, again, I would say if you can get a good deal on a 2024 I don't think you need to wait to get a 2025 because the upgrades are pretty slim.

Um And this one was very nicely apportioned by the big V eight, which I mean, there is no replacement for displacement when you're rolling around with, uh you know, big uh V eight in the suburban.

You definitely have that king of the road feel.

High country trim is just loaded.

It's a lovely interior.

Uh You know, this one had the literally the wheels were called something to the effect of sterling silver like I, I gotta find the exact term here for it, but it was crazy.

I had the painted the radiant red tint coat.

So everybody saw me coming in this thing too.

Sunroof, which in a vehicle this big is always something all for the princely price of just under $95,000 which it seems like a lot for a suburban.

But, um, it's a, you know, again, very solid vehicle and, uh, you know, I enjoyed my time with it.

I think the bigger upgrade was a few years ago around 2021.

I think when they, you know, gave these things, they tweaked the suspension, which made them handle better.

This is the uh suburban and also the Tahoe also opened up a little bit more cargo space.

So I think that was helpful and, you know, the interiors of the Tahoe and the suburban just keep getting better.

I think that's where you're really seeing some, you know, differentiation from the Silverado and the Sierra.

Uh it's less like a truck inside and very much like a nice interior.

So, uh that's a suburban, you know, hauled a bunch of stuff.

Uh, ironically the day after the suburban went back, I used a range rover velar to go haul seven bags of mulch probably should have reversed that.

But, hey, that was just my schedule.

Uh, but the suburban, you know, family loved it, plenty of room for everything.

And, um, I would argue 95 is a lot, but it's still a pretty good value given that it's enormous.

And you can do a lot of things with it.

So, so that's a suburban, uh, let's, uh, move along to another SUV, the land cruiser in 1958.

I have not been in the new land cruiser yet, so I'm kind of jealous.

You have the 1958 which I believe gives you round headlights and some other cool stuff.

Uh, this probably is your first take in the land cruiser, right?

What did you think of it?

Yeah, and it was a very brief um stint because I was driving it over to John Snyder's house to drop it off with him since uh I was swapping it for another vehicle which we will touch on briefly after this.

Uh And yes, it was my first time in it and it was, it was interesting.

It looks great and yes, the 1958 does get the round headlights and, well, what I guess was really surprising to me.

Um, well, I told John that it might be the 1958 trim, but the interior feels more like 1990 because it is really, really bare and really, really plain.

It's lots and lots of hard black plastic.

The seats are one kind of cloth over every single panel and it's sort of this black and white, sort of uh or kind of black and gray, uh kind of melange of fabric and it's on every single, like most new cars usually have like different patterns for like the inserts or the bolsters or the head, like they do some things to kind of mix things up.

Not on land.

Cruiser.

1958 every single bit of cloth on there is the same kind of cloth.

Um, it had manual, a manual adjustable seats.

Uh, uh, I found blank switches here and there.

It's got a little bitty, it's got a little bitty infotainment screen.

I, it was, it was a bit surprising because this is a vehicle that starts in the high $58,000 range.

And granted this is, this is based on the land cruiser Prado and the land and like the actual land cruiser Prado, not the Lexus GX version that we've had in the US for ages has always been actually a pretty spartan vehicle inside, like you're paying for the capability.

And that's kind of the case here with the land cruise in 1958 you're, you're buying it for kind of a land cruise arenas.

Like, I guess one of the other things that was kind of surprising is that the interior is actually a bit on the narrow side too.

Um Yeah, it was, it was just interesting all that aside the I Force Max hybrid uh turbo power train, really, really nice pulls, really strong, very smooth.

Um, actually, like you can hear a fair bit of turbo whistle, kind of kind of reminiscent of sort of like a big old turbo diesel.

Um I say that in a very good way and I think a lot of land cruiser owners would probably enjoy that.

Uh, transmission shifts really smoothly, like, and being a hybrid and I it's got a great coasting function.

So coming up to a stoplight or something, it shuts off the engine really smoothly and very early.

So kind of little fuel savings here and there.

Yeah.

So it's interesting, like it's, it does drive well, um, it's fairly spacious but it does feel fairly bare bones for how much money you're paying for it.

All right.

So this is, you know, I mean, it's a land cruiser.

It's one of the probably top five most talked about vehicles in the industry.

Do you think this kind of measures up in its new form?

I mean, it went from this enormous three row crossover luxury barge thing to bit of a Wrangler competitor.

Did they make that transition in your assessment?

Oh, I mean, I think so.

Uh, it's a lot cheaper than the old land cruiser.

Um, I mean, I wouldn't call it cheap but it is, gosh, probably not.

It's a little bit more than half of what, like the old land cruiser costs.

So, I mean, yeah, it's definitely a lot cheaper.

Uh, I guess the main thing that I'm concerned about is how it is going to coexist with forerunner because, like, if you look at the dimensions, they're darn near, like they're almost identical.

I mean, it's almost like you're just paying for a different look.

I, I mean, that may be kind of the case.

Uh, it, it does feel like it is like super niche now.

So, I mean, we'll see how that goes.

It, it might be that there's kind of a higher end to land cruiser than there is to forerunner.

But it, it is kind of a concern of mine.

What about the Lexus GX?

You know, I'm not entirely sure there's as much crossover there.

Um, because I think the styling, the badging all of that, it's, it's a different vibe.

Um, I, whereas I think there's a lot more kind of cross shopping between like a 4runner and land cruiser as opposed to like a GX and a land cruiser fair.

I mean, even if, like, they're technically closer to each other, like, I mean, the GX and land cruiser, basically the same vehicle in a lot of ways.

But I think there's, I, it's, it's one of those funny, funny psychological things about how about the badge on it making, making all the difference.

If I didn't know like there were no badges, I would probably pick the, uh, the GX just like without badges.

I like the overall statics.

I like some of the things they've done just with the suspension and just the interior just seems a little, uh, bougie a little more comfortable for daily driving.

But I mean, if you're asking me based on overall, like, because badges are a thing I would probably go forerunner.

I just, I've always liked the forerunner.

Uh, it's a little hard for me to almost detach what these things have been for so long because in my head, yeah, the land cruiser back in the eighties in the nineties was this thing that they're trying to return it to more of a Wrangler competitor for lack of a better way to describe it.

But it was a huge three row like coastal SUV for like two decades longer than that.

So it's like at what point does it stop being what it used to be and become what it was for so long.

So I think for a lot of people, it's a little confusing even though the Land Cruiser heritage is so strong and they always traded off of that too with the three row version to make it seem like it was just this, you know, throwback to this other time.

Um And then the forerunner too.

I mean, part of me also thinks you might want to even look at the outgoing forerunner.

If you like the V Six, it's not fuel efficient.

But I mean, maybe you just, that's more of what the forerunner you want is.

So, uh all that is to say, I think these are strong products and I think, uh I give credit to Toyota for really servicing the off road, you know, crowd.

I mean, they really are going for it.

How other companies don't have anything like this?

And they've got three.

So, and they're new and they're investing in them.

So, I mean, that's something.

So, speaking of off road, you drove the strato, I drove it last week.

Uh senior editor for all things Electric uh In Green drove it.

That's John Snyder, which was not part of his duties as the green editor.

He, you know, driving a V 10 Lambeau.

Uh I kind of liked the car more than 911 that I drove a couple of weeks prior.

Uh, but this is wild.

It was a lot of fun.

Uh, it's definitely a flex.

What did you think of this beast?

I really fell hard for it.

It's, it's, it's a pretty awesome car and, um, I came away liking it more than the, the car.

Um, I think, but what I, what I came away from both of them feeling is that while they are ostensibly sort of aiming to solve the same problem, they are different vehicles with kind of different purposes.

I think the, the car, the car is the one that I would legitimately want to take like to a rally cross or something and drive it really hard in the dirt.

Um, because it's got more ground clearance, it seems to have tires that are much more biased to off road because that thing was just squealing and howling of like and taking turns that my suburban wouldn't even like, freak out over.

Um, and the, the car just feels a whole lot more sort of button down and serious.

Whereas the Lamborghini is loud and silly and goofy and I love it for that and the one that they gave us is bright orange.

That was awesome.

The V 10 makes amazing.

Sounds, revving it out to 85 to that 8500 R PM.

Uh, red line is so good.

It just uh it howls and it's, and it pops and bangs and it's just a goofy goofy car.

Um the tires on it, they are all terrains but they seem to have more pavement grip than the car ones which, which made it more fun for me on the street and having that soundtrack just made it a lot more fun on the street.

Also the, the Turbo Flat Six and the Porsche is not the most inspiring sounding engine in the world Lambeau wins on engine all day long.

You're not wrong there.

Um And yeah, in general, I like I, I think the, I think the Lamborghini is a little bit more fun on pavement and frankly, that's where most of these are gonna be driving.

Um And so hence in a lot of ways, it's like, I think I, I think I prefer the Lamborghini uh because and just because it's, it's just silly and fun and it just made me giggle like all the time when I was driving it and surprisingly, like, I, well, the seats in it were, I think, more comfortable and easier to get in and out of than the Porsche.

Which boy, how often are you gonna say?

Like, it was easier and more comfortable to get into a Lamborghini than it was in 911.

Um, you know, and it's also like a Lamborghini that you can drive anywhere and just not worry about it.

Like, it's got enough tire and suspension that you can go over potholes and like curbs without too much issue and like, it's got these black rubberized fender flares and things on it that, you know, I mean, sure, you don't want to bump it, but like if you do, it's less likely you're, you're gonna do like thousands and thousands of dollars of carbon fiber damage because you've got this big plastic flare over the side.

Um, yeah, I really, I really, really liked it.

Um, and I was sad to see it go.

All right.

Well, I think, uh, yeah, I hope you've, uh, listeners you've enjoyed kind of living vicariously through our time in the Lambeau and the Porsche.

It's been, it's been a hell of a good June as far as like, fun, uh, press cars that we've been doing our best to create a lot of good content on.

You're doing a road test for this and obviously we've talked about this on two straight podcasts.

I'm gonna have a five thoughts on it coming up.

So lots of good stuff on the Uan Strato so that let's spend some money.

Uh Anthony writes long time listener, been a while since I've written in to spend my money.

Hopefully this is a good discussion.

Oh, I think it will be.

I've got 2020 Chevy, Colorado ZR two.

Uh considering making the switch to electric.

Generally, I'm conscious about the environment these days, but I'm having a really hard time finding any sort of equivalent options at that premium mid-sized truck segment.

My first obvious choice is the R and R one T which is a little larger if I understand, but also more in line with the full size truck price ranges that can easily hit six figures, that kind of sums it up pretty well.

Anthony, it really does.

The new Tacoma has a hybrid option with an off road trim but nothing at the TRD pro level.

Everything else including the F 150 Lightning is either much larger or too expensive.

I don't know if I just need to wait a few more years for more affordable or mid size options to become available or if I just need to accept the fact that transitioning to electric is going to come at a premium on top of the already inflated, inflated mid size truck prices that we're seeing with the new generation offerings would love to know if there's anything I'm missing or not considering.

Thanks for the time.

Keep up the great work on the podcast.

Cheers.

Hey, cheers to you.

Thanks for writing Anthony.

We'll kick it over to you, Joel.

What do you think?

So, if you want to do, if you want to kind of go to any sort of amount of electrification, um right now, like it is gonna be for full electric.

It's definitely gonna be full size trucks for the most part with the exception of the R one T for now.

And genuinely, it's not really that much bigger than like Tacoma or Colorado.

It's a little bit but genuinely not that much.

Um So I think you would actually be pretty comfortable with it and price wise, it can be expensive, but it doesn't necessarily have to be, it starts at about $70,000 and again, like that's not cheap by any means.

Um And I think you can probably get like an F 150 lightning for a bit less than that.

Uh But as you said, like you don't necessarily want to go to like a full sizer.

Um So it's probably worth it to go with the Rivian in that case.

Uh And the thing is, and like I say that the Rivian is at $70,000 isn't necessarily that much expenses that much more expensive because the hybrid options that you're gonna be looking at coming out on the mid-sized trucks like within the year, uh are not gonna be particularly cheap either.

So, I mean, coming the most soon will be the Tacoma with the I Force Max engine and that one will be available with, uh, like the top spec off-road versions that, um, like that's what the TRD Pro and the Trail Hunter are gonna be offered with.

Um, and you can even get it with like TRD off road pack with the I Force Max engine.

Um, and if we take that TRD off-road, I force Max that starts in the mid $40,000 which is, you know, that's a big diff, that's much less than the Brian.

Um, but if you're looking at like you want all the off road goodies, the trail hunter and the TRD Pro, they're both over $60,000 to get one of those.

And the thing is the I Force Max is much more about performance than it is fuel economy.

They like the I force Max.

It's the most it's getting is about 24 MPG on the highway, which is not bad, but it's also not what you would kind of expect from like an efficiency, mild, uh, hybrid.

So depending on your knee, I mean, I think you'd get a good truck, but I'm assuming that if you're looking at full electric, you are looking at like trying to reduce the amount of gas you're using.

So, in that case, I would kind of lean toward the Rivian, but the thing that I would bring up is that also in about a year, we should be seeing the Jeep Gladiator plug uh four by E um which would be a plug in hybrid and obviously like as long as you're plugging it in, um what you should be, you can get significantly better fuel economy than say like that uh Toyota with the Air Force Max engine and it probably will be cheaper than the Rivian.

That's not to say that it'll be cheap.

A Wrangler four by starts at a little over $50,000.

So I think it would be safe to assume that the Gladiator four by will start somewhere in that $50,000 range.

Whether it will be low or high we have yet to see.

Um And granted, you know, being a Gladiator, it will be like a Wrangler pickup truck.

And so you do have some refinement things.

So I guess there's not necessarily one easy answer here, but I would definitely say wait a little bit longer just so that like the I force Max Toyotas are out and the rain and the Gladiator four by a year out so that you have a chance to go and check those out.

And if neither of those seem like if none of those do it for you, then I'd say the Rivian is probably your best bet.

All right, sounds good.

So here's how I would break things down, I would say.

Uh and these are some questions you kind of got to answer yourself.

How serious, how much do you want to go electric?

And do you want to do this right now?

Because if that's what if you're really electric and you want to do it now, you gotta go rivian because that's available right now.

I've driven the R one T I really liked it.

Um, it's a pretty big truck.

It's closer to a full size than a mid size.

That being said it, the only thing I've driven that really splits the field right in between.

It's not a huge truck.

It's very drivable.

Uh It's based, you know, on the same setup as the R one S which is a crossover.

So it's, again, it's Rivian pitches.

This is a lifestyle truck, not, is like an F 150 fighter.

So I think you would be right at home in that, especially given the fact that the Colorado, uh which you own and the ranger are pretty big trucks these days.

So I think, I don't think you would, I think the size would work is what I'm trying to say.

They also just recently upgraded it for the new model year.

I don't think they're out quite yet.

Uh But it was a lot of under the skin stuff kind of software, electrical, uh the real kind of nerdy engineering stuff.

They about the same.

Uh So you can read our review from Jonathan Ramsey, one of our longest running contributors and decide if you want to wait for the next model.

Uh If you want to go spec one out right now, the 2024 R one T adventure.

This is the dual standard.

I just did this right.

While you were kind of talking, uh your estimated price will be $72,150 doesn't include taxes.

It also doesn't include incentives.

So, you know, that would, to me that's a pretty reasonable price.

You get things like the dual motor.

Uh I splurged and put in a $1750 down to get the forest green because I think it fits with this 21 inch wheels.

Uh Rivian Elevation Audio, I don't know what that is but it probably, it sounds good.

Pun intended.

You get the tunnel cover for 500 bucks extra which I would take uh on the Rivian R one T and many other pickup trucks.

I just think it's very useful and the panoramic glass roof nicely equipped, estimated delivery is 1 to 6 weeks.

So, I mean, right now, I think a lot of times when people are looking for help, they want a direct answer.

Uh That's probably option number one.

I think that's, that's good.

Number two.

If you wanna go hybrid, I've driven the uh Wrangler four by E I think it's solid.

I think you want to have a home charger or perhaps a charger at your place of business.

If you know, you have an office that way you can make the most of its electric range because it's, it's not a quick charger.

So you've got to be able to charge it, let it sit for a while and get that maximum.

Uh What is it, 25 miles of range somewhere in there?

You want to get that uh all that is to extrapolate over to the Gladiator saying, assuming it's a similar setup, which we think it will be.

Uh I would do that.

I just kind of like the Gladiator slightly more than the Taco hybrid right now.

So, but also I really like the Tacoma.

So that would be a be my order.

Uh kind of ask yourself those two questions.

Do you really want to go electric and do you wanna do it right now?

Answer is yes.

Vivian.

If it's no, you kind of wanna play the field a little bit.

I do Gladiator four by E when it comes and third would be the taco, which I think is a great truck and I think you'd be happy with all these things.

I really do as I look sort of into my crystal ball.

My guess is somebody else is gonna roll out another hybrid or electric truck.

But at this moment in time, we just don't know what that is.

If we did, we would report that, you know, there's the Maverick hybrid out there as well.

The RA M revolution sort of extended range hybrid.

It is also on the horizon.

But if, you know, you're still trying to stay in that mid size thing, you definitely don't want to jump up to a Ram.

So, um, Vivian has been a bit of a thread of this podcast.

So I think, you know, I'm pretty comfortable with that answer.

So, yeah, and the thing is like Maverick hybrid would be great.

It's just that if you're coming from Colorado ZR two, it's not gonna even come remotely close to offer capability.

And so yeah, I think, yeah, I think both of us like if it's gotta be now, it's Rivian ideally just wait a little bit and I think both of us kind of think Gladiator or four by you would be a very strong choice, especially um in Rubicon package.

Indeed, because then you would have the potential for a lot of electrification like again, like, and this is for anybody listening.

If you got, if you've got a plug in hybrid, please, please plug it in.

That's you're not gonna get the benefits of it if you don't.

Um But I mean the benefits are there if you do.

And so in a lot of ways, Gladiator four by E Rubicon would be really good.

Um And like, and I think, yeah, and I think we're both kind of in agreement that Tacoma I force max solid option, but it's not really like if you're trying to, if you're trying to get more electrification and better fuel economy.

It's not necessarily the way to go.

Indeed.

Indeed.

And if you, you go all the way back almost a year, uh We had the original uh Gladiator four by E Scoop reporting.

Uh I actually did that just to let you guys know that, hey, Auto Blog, we, we try to bring you this like forward looking news.

That's who we are uh as we celebrate our 20th anniversary here and that's all the time we have this week on the auto blog podcast.

Thanks for hanging out Joel.

Thanks everybody for listening.

Be safe out there.

Uh Enjoy your week and please give us five stars if you so choose on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get the show, if you'd like to spend uh like us to spend your money like Anthony, that's podcast at Auto blog.com.

Hey, be safe out there.

We'll see you next week.